Greg Pierce:
Oh, nice. App Review got me a “misleading subscription” rejection for Christmas.
It’s clear from all the rejections that App Review was tasked with auditing renewable IAP subs - which was needed and not a bad thing.
It’s not clear that they were given any better guidaince than we have on what is acceptable, so they are repeating their mistakes.
Greg Pierce:
I have created this unofficial App Review HIG addendum showing acceptable renewable subscriptions pitch screens. Hope it is helpful in developing a screen which will get through App Review - while also minimizing your conversion rate.
Tim Schmitz:
I’m really starting to agree with whoever suggested that Apple should provide a stock UI for subscription product listings. I’m sure we’d have complaints about it too, but at least it would help with some of the scams and we’d avoid this unpleasant dance.
Greg Pierce:
Yes. It’s very hard to offer the trial and be specific about the price without creating the worry that they will be charged immediately.
Luc Vandal:
They’re pushing us towards subscriptions. They should do a better job helping us accomplish this. Let’s hope they’ll improve this in 2019. To me, it’s just another level of stress that I don’t need dealing with App Store Connect at the moment.
Previously: How to Game the App Store, Apple Pulling High-Grossing Scammy Subscription Apps Off the App Store.
Update (2018-12-23): Ryan Jones:
100% true.
For those lucky enough to not deal with this: you must include all the fine print (because Apple can’t seem to bill when the trial ends), you must include the price, and the term, on the button*
*unless you’re a top app, go look, I dare you
Update (2019-01-16): Ryan Jones:
Apple gave Apple Music a special payment screen - without price or recurring subscription term.
Update (2019-01-28): Mike Stern:
New and updated subscription design guidance and App Store marketing guidance
Ryan Jones:
Notice: The Apple designers themselves can’t fit the subscription benefits and the fine print on screen IN THE SPEC.
I’ve spent 100+ hours on @FlightyApp’s screen, so I’m quite familiar.
(I hope we don’t see rejections when/if using this exact format.)
Update (2019-02-05): Kontra:
If Apple wanted to protect users from subscription scams at the App Store, it would standardize the purchase screen (with immutable embedded rules) that all devs would have to use for transaction.
(In design, purpose + constraints → clarity.)
David Barnard:
If Apple wanted to protect users from subscription scams on the App Store, it would redesign the payment confirmation screen for clarity & fix the TouchID confirmation flaw (What developers do wouldn’t matter nearly as much if Apple fixed those 2 things)
Update (2019-06-17): David Barnard:
Apple is still letting top grossing apps (@calm) get away with things that they’ve been rejecting other apps for. I (and lots of other developers I’ve talked to) was told that the price has to be on the button and in a font of similar size/weight as the other button text.
Update (2020-02-24): David Barnard:
Before I could even tweet about how amazing it was for Launch Center Pro to go into review 30 minutes after being submitted, it was rejected for a BS reason . (My annotation on the left, the screenshot they sent me with their annotation on the right)
Update (2020-11-27): Greg Pierce:
Rejection followup: Based on my conversation with App Review, is it a new point of emphasis that pricing be presented “more prominently” than free trial info for subscriptions. Consider preemptively adjusting, or just take your chances with inconsistent enforcement.
Ryan Jones:
App Review is rejecting
@FlightyApp
because “pricing is not the most prominent element” on our paywall.
[…]
Bad actors ruin it for everyone.
@Strava
is breaking every rule.
Apple: Without penalties, it will never stop! Imagine if laws had no penalty… useless.
Update (2022-08-04): Ryan Jones:
App Store rules don’t apply to Tinder apparently.
Fucking maddening. Not even close to compliant.
Update (2024-10-07): Marco Arment:
Unskippable IAP subscriptions are OK now?
This app literally cannot be used without beginning a subscription. No skip, no cancel, no close.
This requirement is disclosed nowhere on the App Store page, and the real price ($40/year) cannot be ascertained before installation and onboarding. (The IAPs section of the App Store page lists many options spanning many prices.)
And it’s an App Store Editor's Choice.
App Review App Store App Subscriptions Apple Music iOS iOS 12 Tinder
Chris Welch (Hacker News):
Apple has confirmed to The Verge that some of its 2018 iPad Pros are shipping with a very slight bend in the aluminum chassis. But according to the company, this is a side effect of the device’s manufacturing process and shouldn’t worsen over time or negatively affect the flagship iPad’s performance in any practical way. Apple does not consider it to be a defect.
[…]
And I’ve seen others from folks who are insistent their iPad came that way out of the box.
Apple is now saying that in some cases, the latter is true. And I can personally vouch for that: my 11-inch iPad Pro showed a bit of a curve after two weeks. Apple asked if I would send it their way so the engineering team could take a look. But the replacement 11-inch iPad Pro I received at Apple’s Downtown Brooklyn store exhibited a very slight bend in the aluminum as soon as I took off the wrapper.
At first, I thought this was a parody. This is what Apple wants its brand to stand for? A premium product that is bent right out of the box?
Juli Clover (tweet):
Shortly after the new 2018 11 and 12.9-inch iPad Pro models shipped out to customers, some MacRumors readers found bends in their tablets. Unsurprisingly, new iPad owners were upset and disappointed to find unwanted defects in devices that cost hundreds of dollars, but according to new information from Apple, a slight bend isn’t out of the ordinary.
[…]
The Verge suggests that those who are irritated by the bend “shouldn’t have any trouble exchanging or returning” an iPad Pro at an Apple Store, but that statement likely only applies to devices that are still under the return policy. Apple typically does not replace devices experiencing issues that are not considered manufacturing defects, so it’s not entirely clear if those with bent tablets outside of the return period will be able to get replacements.
Zac Cichy:
Something is definitely off about Apple’s wording here. I can’t imagine getting a brand new iPad at $800+ with a “slight bend” and that not being a defect. My guess is they’ll mostly replace these and their PR wording here is legally driven.
Worst case scenario: you immediately return the iPad and buy a new one.
I just seriously hope Apple stores aren’t actually telling customers that a slight bend in their very expensive new device is within the range of normal expectation.
nut_bunnies:
Like I’m sure that’s a manufacturing issue but Apple has earned a rep for sweating the tiniest of details so it’s a little jarring seeing stuff like that
Michael Love:
This is a pointlessly stupid response from Apple, yes - would be so easy to just say a few of them are bent by accident + welcome users to exchange bent devices within 14 days after receiving them, sounds way better + unlikely to cost them much since people would do that anyway.
If anything, encouraging people to exchange bent models would increase the odds of the people who were exchanging them anyway taking a chance on a second unit rather than just giving up on the whole thing.
Dave Mark:
Is this really normal? Look at the image in the linked article. Certainly seems like a manufacturing defect to me.
Marko Karppinen:
Apple should decide whether they want to be the company that ships iPads a little bent from the factory and calls it normal, or the company that charges up to $1899 for an iPad. Doing both seems untenable
Nick Heer:
These are thousand-dollar devices designed and engineered by a company known for its fastidious attention to detail; there is simply no excuse why they should be bent as a result of its manufacturing.
Previously: iPad Pro 2018, The Magic Keyboard With Numeric Keypad Is Apparently Bendy, iPhone 6 Bendgate and Touch Disease, Just Avoid Sitting in That Way.
Update (2018-12-23): Quinn Nelson:
Apple’s in the wrong. It’s one thing if a customer bends the device, but shipping a product bent is entirely different. It’s a defect.
Dan Riccio (9to5Mac):
Relative to the issue you referenced regarding the new iPad Pro, its unibody design meets or exceeds all of Apple’s high quality standards of design and precision manufacturing. We’ve carefully engineered it and every part of the manufacturing process is precisely measured and controlled.
Our current specification for iPad Pro flatness is up to 400 microns which is even tighter than previous generations. This 400 micron variance is less than half a millimeter (or the width of fewer than four sheets of paper at most) and this level of flatness won’t change during normal use over the lifetime of the product.
This seems like a response to an entirely different issue. Or is he implying that all the photos are fake or somehow distorted?
John Gruber:
400 microns = 0.4mm. The question is how noticeable is “up to 400 microns” of bend?
If 300-400 microns is noticeably bent, I think this is a problem. The photos of bent iPads people are sharing look like they’re bent a lot more than 0.4mm. But it’s only 5.9mm thick so maybe 0.4mm is noticeable?
Nick Heer:
I can’t remember this being an issue previously. Maybe the flat edges make it more noticeable, too?
Michael Love:
400 microns = nothing approaching the bend in this photo or the sort of bend people have been complaining about. So this definitely looks like a botched PR response rather than an actual BendGate. (which I guess is a good sign Apple-QA-wise, but still a stupid mistake)
Juli Clover:
Riccio’s email also says that a company statement was not included in the original information disseminated by The Verge, and that Apple will be reaching out to media outlets to comment officially.
Odd to provide two official responses but to postpone the official “statement” until, I guess, after the holidays.
Update (2018-12-27): Michael Simon:
In his email to a disgruntled iPad owner, Apple VP Riccio said a statement from Apple regarding the situation would be forthcoming. One might assume it would wax intellectual about acceptable microns and the “specification for iPad Pro flatness.” But a week later, the statement still hasn’t arrived, which is all you need to know about Apple’s handling of this whole situation.
With scattered reports across forums, we have no way of knowing how many iPads are affected, but even if it’s only less than 20 iPads total, Apple would be wise to recognize that any bent iPad is a problem, and offer replacement units and refunds on any AppleCare costs. This is literally about damage control, and a small token would go a long way toward protecting Apple’s premium brand promise.
Update (2018-12-28): Bob Burrough:
Here’s a render of two iPad Pro sized blocks, edge on. The block on the left is unbent. The block on the right has a 400 micron bend.
Michael Gartenberg:
Returned my iPad this morning. Perhaps it was within Apple tolerances but Apple tolerances shouldn’t allow for a clear noticeble bend. Much as monitors with noticeble dead pixels aren’t acceptable either.
Update (2019-01-01): scott:
Apple won’t replace these bent iPad’s. This is what Apple considers normal now and what the Apple press considers to be the best quality hardware in the world.
Update (2019-01-08): See also: The Talk Show.
Apple (via MacRumors):
These precision manufacturing techniques and a rigorous inspection process ensure that these new iPad Pro models meet an even tighter specification for flatness than previous generations. This flatness specification allows for no more than 400 microns of deviation across the length of any side — less than the thickness of four sheets of paper. The new straight edges and the presence of the antenna splits may make subtle deviations in flatness more visible only from certain viewing angles that are imperceptible during normal use. These small variances do not affect the strength of the enclosure or the function of the product and will not change over time through normal use.
If you believe your new iPad Pro does not meet the specifications described in this article, please contact Apple Support. Apple offers a 14-day return policy for products purchased directly from Apple.
Nick Heer:
Apple is sticking by its assertion that tolerances for flatness are finer on newer iPads than on older models. But it is equally true that we have not previously seen reports of iPads bent in this fashion.
Update (2019-02-04): Juli Clover:
Over on the MacRumors forums, our readers who have run into the bending issue have been sharing their experiences with replacements, Apple support, and more, so that thread is well worth checking out if you’ve purchased a new iPad Pro model with a bend in it.
Apple AppleCare Hardware iOS iOS 12 iPad iPad Pro
Uluroo (tweet):
Touch and cursors are diametrically opposed interface design paradigms. To prioritize one is to compromise the other. Clearly it would be a mistake to put macOS on the iPhone, or to put iOS on the Mac. You would end up with an interface that was either too dense or too spread-out for the hardware it ran on. If it’s bad for operating systems to cross the boundaries of platforms, why does anyone think it will be good for apps to? They play by the same rules as anything else.
[…]
Apple should be setting the example for third-party developers. When it’s not making good software, developers shouldn’t be expected to. Apple is the root of the problem here; its apps, the shining beacon that attracts developers to this new API, are so bad it’s not even funny.
[…]
Marzipan is the antithesis of the Mac. It is a slow venom that, if it spreads far enough, will kill everything that makes the Mac worth having. At this point, it seems unlikely that Apple will administer the antidote and give Marzipan the axe. But that’s what needs to happen.
Previously: The Mojave Marzipan Apps, Electron and the Decline of Native Apps.
Update (2018-12-23): Gregory Sapienza:
Problem is: without this initiative Apple would be handing over macOS to the world of electron indefinitely
Uluroo:
I agree that Marzipan isn’t the bottom of the scale, but that doesn’t justify its existence. Another alternative is real, good apps.
Part of what makes this annoying is Apple’s own cross-platform work. For first-party apps, Apple should not consider Marzipan acceptable.
Apple should be setting the example for developers. If News and Stocks had been well-made apps, optimized for macOS, maybe I wouldn’t be so convinced that Marzipan is bad. But Apple has not just made the development process easier — it’s lowered its own design standards.
Drew McCormack:
Don’t really get the fear mongering around Marzipan. Will the Marzipan apps be great apps? Nope. Will it mean at least we have some apps where there were none? Yep. Is there always an opportunity for a good Mac dev to make a quality product stealing the whole show? Yep.
At the micro level, this is probably true. But what about the ecosystem as a whole? It does not bode well that Apple is either unable or unwilling to do a good job—either for Apple’s commitment to the Mac platform or for the ability of Marzipan to make good apps possible. Secondly, an onslaught of these types of apps, blessed by Apple, will shift the standards of what users will put up with, reducing the taste for quality. And Apple will fill the Mac App Store with them, making it harder to find the gems.
Craig Scott:
It will result in an expectation of buy once, run everywhere - and the once will be at iOS prices. This will make Mac development less profitable - hence fewer high quality apps.
Alastair Houghton:
IMO the real worry (as a user as much as a developer) is that maybe we’re importing the obnoxious iOS ecosystem and all its sharp practices to macOS?
Update (2018-12-27): See also: The Talk Show.
Steve Troughton-Smith:
Loved the Marzipan discussion, but people really need to temper the ‘of course Marzipan isn’t the /real/ solution’ discussion. What on earth about Apple’s last decade suggests to you that they have the bandwidth for yet a third platform in the wings to be the ‘real’ way forward?
Steve Troughton-Smith:
I don’t think you could choose to make Marzipan happen today, 8 yrs after they should have started that work, w/o having spent yrs following the ideal path down the rabbit hole & leaving w/ nothing to show for it. Should have been Plan A a decade ago, but no way it’s Plan A today
Indeed, one of the most puzzling aspects of Marzipan is its timing. In 2011 or so, I thought Apple must be on the verge of introducing something like this. That it took so long and yet still seems so rough is surprising.
Steve Troughton-Smith:
Personally, I would treat Marzipan as an ‘all hands on deck’ project. Everybody across iOS and macOS at Apple needs to make this not just work, but be a great desktop platform, and the primary focus of desktop app development at Apple from now on. Dogfood the heck out of it
I’m embracing it because either this works or the Mac dies. I don’t think it’s the right solution and it’s not what I would have done at this stage of the platform’s evolution. I would have committed to killing macOS a decade ago and spent the decade making iOS fit to replace it
Francisco Tolmasky:
It’s really hard to understand what is needed from a framework if you’re not writing innovative apps. If Apple were still striving to make iWork or FCP quality apps, they’d have more insight into other paths to follow. “Pure framework” design with only toy apps is dangerous.
Riccardo Mori:
I would have committed to, you know, just make Mac OS –AND– iOS better. Apple ought to have enough resources to do just that.
Pieter Omvlee:
I think it should have started 10 years ago with unifying basic APIs and classes and then build up from that. It’s a bit too late for that now so I understand the why behind Marzipan though it saddens me
Catalyst (Marzipan) Mac macOS 10.14 Mojave
Oliver Thomas:
I just received a push notification for the offer (not an email)
Nilay Patel:
No, Apple. Bad. Desperate unsolicited push notifications are bad.
That services narrative looks a lot sketchier if it relies on the same growth hack trickery Apple forbids other people from using
Ryan Jones:
Lovely. And I do not have Apple Music.
Joe Rosensteel:
Hopefully some day Apple can afford to hire a developer that can check a list of people that are already using a feature before sending out mass, unsolicited notifications.
John Parkinson:
I like the advertising emails telling me to buy $new_product_x that I already registered on my AppleID.
Tim Schmitz:
Why am I getting spammed with push notifications about the Emmy’s? Why did I get subscribed to an Emmy news channel I don’t want, and why can’t I remove it?
Juli Clover:
Apple has recently been sending out unsolicited notifications to iOS users, promoting Carpool Karaoke episodes and the availability of Apple Music on Amazon Echo devices.
[…]
Unfortunately there’s no way to keep the TV or Music notifications you do want without also getting the unwanted notifications from Apple.
[…]
Apple’s App Store rules do not allow for apps to send notifications for advertising, promotions, or marketing purposes, but it appears those rules don’t apply to Apple’s own notifications.
Chance Miller:
In the last month, Apple has sent a flurry of push notifications to iOS users ranging from iPhone XR promotions to HomePod promotions, Carpool Karaoke episode releases, and more.
[…]
Humorously, Apple regularly touts that Apple Music has “zero ads,” though one might consider this notification an ad in and of itself.
Previously: Push Notifications to Send Promotions, Apple Pushes iPhone 6s Pop-up Ads to App Store, 2018 iPhone Sales.
Update (2018-12-21): Dave Verwer:
In response to this week’s iOS Dev Weekly comment, someone just sent me this screenshot... I think it says everything about how well respected rule 4.5.4 is...
Update (2018-12-23): Marco Arment:
App Store rule 4.5.4 is a joke. Not only is it completely unenforced, but Apple now frequently, blatantly violates it to spam us.
[…]
Apple’s non-enforcement of the rule against marketing push notifications makes iOS on most people’s iPhones feel like a cheap, spammy flea market.
Apple itself now contributing to that is a huge failure to protect their own premium brand image for short-term promotional gains.
Update (2018-12-31): Marko Karppinen:
App Store 2018
Update (2019-01-25): Dylan Seeger (via Marco Arment):
More push notification spam from Apple. Somebody better alert the app review team.
Update (2020-10-16): TJ Luoma:
Apple’s push notification about pre-ordering the iPhone 12 bypassed my son’s iPhone’s Do Not Disturb and went off during a college audition.
It’s one thing to send these push notifications no one asked for. It’s another to bypass DND. Rude and wrong and bad. Do better, Apple.
Update (2020-11-02): Ben Sandofsky:
I hope next year’s iOS supports ad-blockers for iOS Settings.
“Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages.”
Update (2021-08-04): Tom Harrington:
Apple, what happened? You used to be cool. Now you push this kind of shit notification on my devices.
Update (2021-10-08): See also:
Nicolas Rieul.
Advertising Alexa Apple Apple Music iBooks iOS iOS 12 Push Notifications
I have no idea whether this time it’s different and the reported production cuts actually do mean that sales are lower than Apple expected. But Apple itself does seem to be reacting differently than in past years.
Sean Keane:
Apple told its main phone assemblers, Foxconn and Pegatron, to stop plans for additional iPhone XR production lines, a report said Monday.
The order to the two Taiwanese companies suggests that demand for cheapest of the 2018 iPhones hasn’t lived up to Apple’s expectations, according to Nikkei, which cited anonymous sources.
Joe Rossignol:
In recent weeks, Apple slashed production orders for its latest iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max, and iPhone XR models due to “lower-than-expected demand,” among other reasons, according to unnamed sources cited by The Wall Street Journal.
Shara Tibken:
Apple’s iPhone XR has been outselling the iPhone XS and iPhone XS Max every day since the cheaper, colorful phone hit the market last month.
Greg Joswiak, Apple’s vice president of product marketing, told CNET in an interview Wednesday that the device has “been our most popular iPhone each and every day since the day it became available.”
Mark Gurman:
Apple Inc. is experimenting with iPhone marketing strategies it rarely uses -- such as discount promotions via generous device buyback terms -- to help goose sales of its flagship product.
Company executives moved some marketing staff from other projects to work on bolstering sales of the latest handsets in October, about a month after the iPhone XS went on sale and in the days around the launch of the iPhone XR, according to a person familiar with the situation. This person described it as a “fire drill,” and a possible admission that the devices may have been selling below some expectations.
Michael Steeber:
Starting this week throughout U.S. stores, Apple co-opted its Genius Bar Displays in classic locations, Apple TV demos, and Today at Apple Forum Displays to promote iPhone XS and XR deals. Rolling out Wednesday, animated video demo loops play on the displays, followed by text similar to Apple’s online copy: “Limited Time. iPhone XR from $449. Trade in your current iPhone and upgrade to a new one.” While Apple has used similar wording for in-store promotion of its Back to School offer, the advertising has traditionally been limited to desktop wallpapers on display Macs.
Until recently, Genius Bar Displays were used to showcase product tips and Apple Support videos. Last month, Apple began highlighting upcoming Today at Apple sessions on the displays. The change brought consistency to Apple’s message at every location. In updated stores, the Video Wall serves a similar role and runs playlists of curated artwork when not in use. Forum Displays, when idle between sessions, also highlight each store’s Today at Apple schedule. Marketing of limited-time offers is outside the scope of their original intended use.
Bob Burrough:
Visual comparison of iPhone sales 2015-2018.
Previously: Apple’s Q4 2018 Results, My Today at Apple Experience.
Update (2018-12-11): Tim Hardwick:
Two of Apple’s largest suppliers have reported healthy jumps in monthly revenue, suggesting fears of weak iPhone demand may be overblown (via Bloomberg).
Asian firms TSMC and Foxconn (Hon Hai) both posted a 5.6 percent rise in November sales, reversing a recent trend of Apple suppliers reducing production or revenue outlooks to reflect lowering demand for Apple’s smartphones.
Update (2018-12-12): Tim Hardwick:
Apple this morning began offering promo codes to Apple Music subscribers that allow them to buy a HomePod at a discounted price for a limited time, in a holiday-themed promotion.
Mike Murphy:
This is probably the last one of these charts I’ll ever get to make
Apple is going to stop breaking out shipment data, and it seems pretty obvious why[…]
Ryan Jones:
App Store Editorial team - told to sell hardware too.
Update (2019-01-01): Adam Clark Estes:
Apple put its brand new iPhone on sale just a few weeks after release. Well, it wasn’t an outright sale. Faced with poor sales, the company boosted trade-in values of old iPhones so that you could get an iPhone XR for up to $300 off. These slumping sales numbers are part of a trend, too. People just aren’t buying as many iPhones as they used to, so Apple has been scrambling to figure out its future.
Joe Rossignol:
iPhone XR demand has been lower than expected, according to Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who has slashed his overall iPhone shipment forecast by 20 percent for the first quarter of 2019. He now expects Apple to move 38-42 million iPhones in the quarter, down from his original estimate of 47-52 million.
Juli Clover:
The iPhone XR sold similarly to the iPhone X during its first month of availability in November 2017, but it did not match sales of the iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus, which were at 39 percent in November even after two months of availability.
Although this could be because the XS and/or XS Max is selling relatively better.
Update (2019-01-02): Horace Dediu:
“A study of new activations suggests that the iPhone XR, despite rumors, had a great Christmas” (Localytics - 3 billion data points daily)
This seems like an odd chart because it only looks at the percentage bump compared with several weeks before Christmas. It says nothing about whether the actual number of sales is high or low.
Apple:
Based on these estimates, our revenue will be lower than our original guidance for the quarter, with other items remaining broadly in line with our guidance.
[…]
While we anticipated some challenges in key emerging markets, we did not foresee the magnitude of the economic deceleration, particularly in Greater China. In fact, most of our revenue shortfall to our guidance, and over 100 percent of our year-over-year worldwide revenue decline, occurred in Greater China across iPhone, Mac and iPad.
[…]
Lower than anticipated iPhone revenue, primarily in Greater China, accounts for all of our revenue shortfall to our guidance and for much more than our entire year-over-year revenue decline. In fact, categories outside of iPhone (Services, Mac, iPad, Wearables/Home/Accessories) combined to grow almost 19 percent year-over-year.
[…]
While macroeconomic challenges in some markets were a key contributor to this trend, we believe there are other factors broadly impacting our iPhone performance, including consumers adapting to a world with fewer carrier subsidies, US dollar strength-related price increases, and some customers taking advantage of significantly reduced pricing for iPhone battery replacements.
Jason Snell:
Yikes! Back in November Apple felt that the holiday season would be its best quarter ever. In the cold light of 2019, it turns out that it’s going to be down $4B year over year, and most of the reason is iPhone sales.
John Gruber:
Not sure Cook should have listed this as a reason for slower than expected iPhone sales. Sure makes it sound like the old way of handling battery degradation was intended to drive people to buy new phones.
scott:
It wasn’t because customers were told for the first time that a new battery would speed up their old phone. It was only because Apple discounted the service by $50.
Previously: Apple Confirms That It Throttles iPhones With Degraded Batteries.
Troy Gaul:
Don’t forget that this is also the year that the new iOS release made old devices faster rather than slower…
Ryan Jones:
I give Cook credit for being mostly straight shooter in the letter. But…
- “period of adversity” 😱
- Fix this with iPhone financing and easier data-transfers. 🤣
- rambling long letter with minuscule excuses 🤦♂️
Will Cosgrove:
The negative appearance and flimsy excuses must have out-weighted the thought of having to say ‘we priced the iPhone too high and the market is saturated.’
Damien Petrilli:
The battery program replacement is blamed for lower sales.
But instead, it made Apple keeping a lot of users.
I can tell you that with their new pricing, everybody around me is considering a switch to Android now and just didn’t because their battery was replaced.
Ryan Jones:
The hard part is the answers are very counterintuitive. Don’t squeeze more money, re-assign good people that have tried their best, charge less (App Store), give away more (iCloud), etc
Update (2019-01-04): Rene Ritchie:
CNBC interview with @tim_cook is must see TV
Bob Burrough:
Apple’s problem is they’ve been making insane money for the last decade, but they don’t use that wealth to reinforce their value proposition. For example, why shouldn’t AppleCare be included in the cost of the phone? It absolutely should be.
Ryan Jones:
OK, criticism is cheap, actual suggestions matter:
- Triple-down on customer centric
- Extreme action to increase Cloud-related reliability
- Product > 90-day growth
- Stop discount sales
- Organize the damn lineups
- Consolidate ports/dongles, fast
- Stop rent-seeking
- 50GB iCloud
- ZERO announcements until it’s ready TIM!
- 15% App Store cut
- Buy DuckDuckGo
- Buy Dropbox? (Buying your way out never works fwiw)
- Listen to your enthusiasts (NOT customers)
- Cut TouchBar
- Get AirPods in stock!
- Crush iOS 13
Previously: AirPods Shipping Delay.
Meek Geek:
Let’s talk about skimping on the product:
- 5GB iCloud storage to backup a 64/256/512GB phone
- no fast charger included
- headphone dongle pack-in removed
- mandatory performance throttling after a year, or pay to change the battery
- exorbitant back glass replacement charges
Steve Troughton-Smith:
After today’s news, do you think prospective iPhone X* users will buy now, or wait until Apple drops the prices next release? 🧐 Does anybody think the pricing will remain the same?
Marco Arment:
China, etc. are valid reasons, but we can’t ignore that, across the entire product line, there’s been a very common theme for the last few years of paying more and getting less.
When you keep tightening the screws on your customers, you’ll eventually find their breaking point.
Scott A. Bell:
If only someone had warned them...
“If you keep your eye on the profit, you’re going to skimp on the product. But if you focus on making really great products, then the profits will follow.” -- Steve Jobs
Dan Moren:
Apple’s choice to discontinue revealing unit sales was in part because it knew a slowdown in units was coming, but they didn’t expect it a) this soon, b) this significantly, or c) both.
Ryan Jones:
Not “needing" the latest iPhone is the root here.
And underneath that is the REAL terrifying thing I’ve been preaching…
Software is the new completive basis and they’re slipping.
Period.
Josh Centers:
That’d explain why Apple waged wars on refurbishers in 2018.
Bob Burrough:
If Apple can drive iPhone sales down by replacing batteries, they aren’t replacing enough batteries yet.
Josh Centers:
If a $29 battery slows down iPhone sales, then either people were only buying new iPhones because their old ones were getting slower or Apple isn’t producing interesting iPhones.
Ryan Jones:
Ahhh I know what they’re doing with the fishy af battery thing.
It’s their way of showing they take ownership of the problems and acknowledging it’s not all external, while admitting nothing.
Ahha.
The Macalope:
I haven’t bought a new iPhone since the SE first arrived. And it has nothing to do with them being too expensive or lacking “innovation”.
Zac Cichy:
Apple is an international company. When one domino falls, others are hit. It’s a constant balancing act. Right now people are using this news to justify any and all takes, and realistically: they can’t all be true. Take some time and look critically at the information.
MacJournals.com:
We read it as saying the $30 price for battery replacements was at a loss.
Tae Kim:
Apple telling Cnet on Nov. 28 that the iPhone XR was the best selling model since launch did not do investors any favors. I called out how bizarre the comparison was then
John Gordon:
Excellent news — Apple missed numbers! So they will either give us more value ... or they will squeeze us dry ...
John Gruber:
It’s easy to say “OK, it’s just China”, except that China is Apple’s only hope for iPhone sales growth. The truth seems obvious: Apple reached peak iPhone unit sales a few years ago, and now that they’ve peaked, when something goes wrong in a major market like China, it’s going to result in an overall decline in sales.
[…]
iPhone sales have effectively peaked for two reasons. First, Apple ran out of new markets to conquer years ago. The iPhone is effectively available worldwide. The astounding go-go growth of the iPhone in the early years was largely about their steady expansion into new countries around the world.
Mike Rundle:
Until a fundamentally new iPhone feature is invented, I think the sales party is over. The iPhone X is good enough and the XS is certainly good enough. Current iPhones are blazing fast with unbelievable cameras. That will still be true in September when the new iPhone comes out.
Colin Cornaby:
Reminder on Apple cutting gross profits by $5-9 Billion: Their net profit last quarter was $14.13 billion. One year ago it was $20 billion.
If spending remained comparable that’s a heck of a hole in the net profits. Still a net profit, still a lot of money in the bank though.
John Gruber:
I really don’t think the prices are too high — I think the high XS/Max prices are keeping revenue where it is. I do think market is saturated though.
This response needed to more of a story, a “Here’s where the iPhone stands” narrative. Not this blah blah blah blah response.
Thomas:
I know several Apple users of 20+ years who have switched to Windows and Android over prices in 2018. They didn’t want to but Apple pushed them too hard and 2018 finally was the tipping point.
Horace Dediu:
The Apple Watch is now a decidedly bigger business than the iPod ever was.
Horace Dediu:
This may come as a shock but Wearables will soon join Services in overtaking the Mac (and the iPad) in revenues.
Horace Dediu:
Looks like Greater China Apple revenues went from +16% y/y growth in Q3 to -40% in Q4.
John Gruber:
That’s it — that’s the entirety of this [2002 earnings] warning. Two paragraphs, under 200 words. Tim Cook’s “letter to investors” today was about 1,400 words.
[…]
Even if Jobs were still around I don’t think Apple could get away with a message so short with today’s news. But Cook’s letter was just too long. There was no story to it, no narrative.
[…]
I think Cook’s genuine and inherent humility holds Apple back on days like today. Apple needed less “I’m sorry, let me explain” and more “Fuck you, this is bullshit, let me explain”. What people took away from Cook’s letter and TV appearance today is that the iPhone laid a turd last quarter. Properly delivered, the takeaway should have been that China is crazy but the iPhone is still kicking the shit out of the entire rest of the handset industry and is only pulling further ahead.
Ryan Jones:
But I do worry the reason it wasn’t written that simple is that it’s not that simple; namely, it’s not all China.
Mark W. Yusko:
This is #ColdWarTwo propaganda BS... $AAPL isn’t even in top 10 in smart phones in #China... problem is they priced themselves out of middle market globally and top 1% all have phones that are “good enough”...
Mark Gurman (tweet):
In a memo obtained by Bloomberg News, Cook expressed his disappointment after Apple cut its revenue outlook for the first time in almost two decades.
[…]
Cook also invited employees to a rare all-hands meeting Thursday, where he intends to share more details about the quarter and take questions.
Ben Bajarin:
Another interesting dynamics of the iPhone upgrade cycle is the higher prices have moved typical carrier leasing to three years instead of two. Xr was included in this as many family members who upgraded to Xr were moved to three year leases.
3-4 year upgrades becoming the norm
Michael Love:
Also, a saturated smartphone market with slowing upgrade cycles isn’t really a bad thing at all for developers; same number of customers but less time spent dealing with the annual drumbeat of everything getting radically redesigned.
Shameer Mulji:
This is an important many don’t seem to understand. iPhone users aren’t jumping ship to Android, they’re just holding onto their iPhones for a longer time
M.G. Siegler:
The problem is that as good as the Services business is becoming for Apple, it’s unlikely to replace the iPhone as the key cog of Apple’s overall business anytime soon. And this means Apple is unlikely to grow as a whole anytime soon. Sure, there may be some quarters of growth here and there, but as this current situation makes clear, the era of unabated growth is over.
The iPhone has simply been too good of a business. And it’s hard to see what tops it. Certainly in the near term. If Services is to carry Apple in the future, it will likely be only after years of relatively stagnant iPhone revenue growth mixed with a rising overall market. In other words, time and the broader world will have to catch up. And then Apple can have their “Microsoft Moment” — a services-based resurrection of growth.
Shira Ovide:
This is a trend years in the making. But at each and every opportunity, Cook has dismissed questions about whether changes in upgrade behavior will hurt Apple’s revenue.
In an August conference call with stock analysts, one of them asked Cook whether the company could continue to sell more iPhones in a few years in light of the smartphone market’s stagnation. Cook said he thought Apple could sell more phones to people who already owned iPhones, to those who had competing devices and to people who had never owned a smartphone. It was an answer straight out of 2015, when everything Cook said was true. It’s not true anymore, and Cook should have known that.
Krzysztof Kurdyła:
I doesn’t change reality that Cook is a new John Sculley, who sacrifices market share and future of the company for extremely high today’s profits. When the real global crisis comes, Apple prices will hit the company not only in Asia.. And it does not look like Cook has a plan B
Wojtek Pietrusiewicz:
I’m curious how much more he could have grown market share by not only expanding into new markets but by letting go of some of those margins.
Benjamin Mayo:
You know, it would be easier for customers to transfer data to a new iPhone if Apple gave them more than 5 GB of iCloud storage for backups.
If you order a new phone on Apple.com , they should instantly grant your Apple ID enough iCloud space to fully backup your current phone so you can move seamlessly to the new model.
After your phone is setup, the storage boost can go away.
I mean, I wish Apple would simply raise the free tier for everyone … but that is much more of a leap than a temporary top-up to help drive iPhone upgrades.
Previously: The Missing iCloud Storage Bump.
Steven Sinofsky:
OMG, the end of good times. No more left to do. Where’s the innovation. Shocking news from Apple on revenue, but needs some context.
Maturing or mature markets are not dead markets. The world did not change overnight even with this announcement.
This isn’t this is fine.
[…]
There are many examples of mature product lines with significant growth selling into a market where the only customers left are upgrades.
Some of these are dull or make little money, some don’t. Most don’t have the moat Apple does.
Innovtors dilemma tends to make people think that businesses evaporate. This is the biggest learning over the past 20 years—established businesses seem to make more money at the “tail end” than at the rise up.
[…]
Third, just as with PCs v browsers / Linux (or servers running in cloud today) there’s a massive opportunity to be had by taking share from the free competitor.
Yes not in Apple DNA, etc—iterally how Apple lost against PCs with Mac. So maybe “this time is different”. Or not.
When I look at this it is shocking—you would have thought this had some level of predictability. One can only conclude one of two things. Either they are surprised. Or things changed more rapidly than many thought.
Seth Weintraub:
When I think about Apple iPhone prices right now, I can’t get this out of my head.
What ruined Apple wasn’t growth … They got very greedy … Instead of following the original trajectory of the original vision, which was to make the thing an appliance and get this out there to as many people as possible, they went for profits. They made outlandish profits for about four years… What that cost them was their future. What they should have been doing is making rational profits and going for market share. (Steve Jobs, 1995)
Steven Sinofsky:
Much analysis: Apple has long known it is missing the boat on providing low priced phones—strategic mistake to cede “low end” to Android. Or raised prices too much/soon. Then it must be an easy answer to just lower prices or make low priced phones. Ack! Harder than it looks.
[…]
So when people say Apple needs a cheaper phone there are many questions to answer beyond the get over yourself luxury brand issue.
What is distribution constraint? What partner absorbs some cost to leave margin? What is the branding?
Easy question — would a cheap phone be sold and supported in Apple stores side by side? How would the rest of the customers feel about more crowds and tougher appointments competing with people who paid half as much? Sell one phone against another—how?
Ryan Jones:
1) This is why Tim’s rambling-financial-engineering-solution letter is terrifying. Versus Steve’s we’re-making-awesomer-shit brief.
2) This is why Apple’s software/services is terrifying. Most of the innovation left lies there.
Uluroo:
To clarify, I agree the XS is worth at least $899 if they price it realistically. But I want them to do what they did with the XR, one step further: a “worse” phone for a better price. $649, smaller screen than XR; seems like a no-brainer upgrade for 6S people.
Update (2019-01-09): See also: Accidental Tech Podcast, The Flock, and Hacker News 2.
Benjamin Mayo:
I think if you read this report and come away with the idea that Apple’s strategy of jacking up iPhone prices to the $1000 level has backfired, you are not interpreting what Cook wrote accurately.
[…]
Nowhere does it allude to Apple pricing its products out of reach of consumers. In fact, it says “categories outside of iPhone combined to grow almost 19 percent year-over-year”. Apple raised prices on basically every product last year, and it seems to be mostly working. They are going to hit all-time revenue records in many regions, including the United States.
Christina Warren:
It feels safe to say, without breakout sales data (RIP), that the XR hasn’t met expectations. I can’t speak specifically for China, but in the US this indicates a larger issue I’ve been commenting on for two years: the growing price to be in the Apple ecosystem.
[…]
I said in another reply that I think for many users 6S was “peak iPhone” - camera was good enough (4K video, great photos), processor was fast enough, and the OS runs great. So if you got a 6S in 2015 or 2016, you might have paid $650 or so, depending on capacity.
[…]
In 2018 or 2019, to get the XR, your starting price is now $750. Now, that doesn’t feel massive, but consider that in 2015 you probably also had some option to have a subsidy. Whereas in 2018/2019, you pay upfront or on a payment/upgrade plan.
But also, the XR is seen as the “cheap” iPhone. It’s less than the XS or XS Max. It doesn’t matter how good the reviews are. Like the 5C, it is viewed as the shitty iPhone.
Steven Sinofsky:
What happens when a computer doesn’t actually get slow, wear out, get compromised, isn’t needed for new apps, and so on?
More uncharted territory for Apple—iPhone is first computer that doesn’t decay over time, works until screen breaks/battery fails.
Harry McCracken:
Interesting Apple sales pitch from my inbox, suggesting I move from an iPhone X to an XR for a lower monthly cost.
Ben Thompson:
Secondly, thanks in part to the lack of information, this miss is catnip for confirmation bias: everyone has their pet theory about what Apple is doing wrong or how they will ultimately fail, and it has been striking the degree to which this revenue warning has been breezily adapted to show that said critics were right all along (never mind that many of those critics trotted out the exact same explanations in 2013 and 2016).
Third, well, I happen to think that I am right as well: I believe that Apple’s management made three critical errors in their forecast for this last quarter that were predictable precisely because they had made the same errors before — errors that I wrote about at the time.
Yoko Kubota (Hacker News):
When Apple Inc. launched the iPhone XR in October, Tim Cook singled out the device to his more than a million followers on Weibo, China’s equivalent of Twitter. “Wonderful to see so many people in China enjoying the new iPhone XR,” he said.
The message underscored Apple’s hope that the device, the cheapest of its three iPhone releases, would be a strong seller in the world’s largest smartphone market.
Juli Clover:
When asked about reports that the iPhone XR was a flop, Cook says he calls "bologna on that." The iPhone XR has, in fact, been the most popular iPhone "every single day" since it started shipping out to customers.
Cook did, however, demure when asked about iPhone XR sales relative to other sales, saying only that he’d like to sell more, and that Apple is "working on that."
Benjamin Mayo:
The iPhone XR has firmly taken over the iPhone XS in usage, according to data from Mixpanel. Although Apple seems to be struggling to meet targets on sales across the iPhone line, the relative sales of the XR now means it has overtaken the 5.8-inch iPhone XS, which had a one month sales lead.
However, the iPhone XS Max continues to hold a sizeable lead despite being the most expensive option.
Update (2019-01-11): See also: Exponent.
Update (2019-01-15): Jean-Louis Gassée:
A more serious issue is Apple’s blind spot regarding China. I distinctly recall Cook telling analysts during a quarterly earnings call that, having studied the country for 30 years, he knew China. This is true and relevant. Cook’s ascension to the COO and, later, to the CEO job is due to his prowess building and managing Apple’s nonpareil Supply Chain Management (SCM) system. Imagine the thousands of parts inside an iPhone, and then picture building ten iPhones per second, 24 hours a day at the peak of the Holidays season, and shipping them to 130 countries… No question, one has to know China, the people, the culture, companies large and some small to make the SCM magic happen year after year, with only the rarest of hiccups.
With all of these strengths, how could Apple, which is more embedded than most Western companies, not see a Chinese economy slowdown that started well before the 2018 Holiday quarter? More specifically, what did Apple know and not know when they issued a guardedly optimistic Q1 revenue guidance in the $89B to $93B range on November 1st? What did they learn in the following 60 days, how much, how fast?
The Talk Show:
Special guest Ben Thompson returns to the show. Topics include Apple’s horrible no good very bad earnings warning, the Chinese market, Apple’s push toward services for revenue growth, antitrust issues regarding the App Store, and more.
John Gruber (MacRumors):
During Apple’s all-hands meeting January 3, Tim Cook said Apple replaced 11 million batteries under the $29 replacement program, and they’d have only anticipated about 1-2 million battery replacements normally.
[…]
But Gassée’s second point still stands: the battery replacement program ran all year long, so even if it was more popular than Apple originally expected, why wasn’t it accounted for in guidance issued on November 1 — 10 months after the program started?
Update (2019-01-23): Geoffrey Fowler and Andrew Van Dam:
Most technology products are commodities that go down in price over time. Apple has worked very hard not to become a commodity.
John Gruber:
You can certainly argue that Apple is making a strategic branding mistake by making more expensive products. But it simply wasn’t an option to sell the iPhone X/XS as it exists for iPhone 7 prices.
Update (2019-01-24): Alex Allegro:
New data from CIRP, Consumer Intelligence Research Partners, shows that iPhone XR was the best selling iPhone model in the United States over the past fiscal quarter, accounting for nearly 40% of total sales. Interestingly, the iPhone XS and XS Max combined accounted for just over 25%.
Unsurprisingly, the iPhone XS was the most unpopular new iPhone, being outsold by its Max counterpart by a “more than two-to-one ratio”.
Update (2019-01-28): Ben Bajarin:
Apple's December quarter iPhone sales are looking to be off about ~16% down from 77m to about 65/66 million.
My talks with investors have moved from the bad quarter to how bad the year may be for iPhone sales.
Services/Wearables still where growth hope comes from.
Update (2019-01-31): suyash:
I’m surprised nobody in the US Apple press has picked up on the fact that FaceID doesn’t work with facemasks. The experience is worse than any phone with a fingerprint sensor for many users in Asia, probably contributing to lower than expected sales for all X-series iPhones.
Previously: Face ID.
Update (2019-07-05): Tim Hardwick:
Apple reimbursed Samsung 800 billion won ($683 million) to cover the cost of OLED panels after Apple missed a sales target both companies had agreed upon.
Apple originally said it would buy a certain number of the display panels from the South Korean company, but disappointing iPhone sales meant it was unable to live up to the agreement. The payment was made in the second quarter of this year.
Apple Apple Retail Stores Battery Life Business China Face ID Greg Joswiak HomePod iPhone iPhone XR iPhone XS iPhone XS Max Tim Cook
Nicole Perlroth et al. (Hacker News):
The hotel chain asked guests checking in for a treasure trove of personal information: credit cards, addresses and sometimes passport numbers. On Friday, consumers learned the risk. Marriott International revealed that hackers had breached its Starwood reservation system and had stolen the personal data of up to 500 million guests.
The assault started as far back as 2014, and was one of the largest known thefts of personal records, second only to a 2013 breach of Yahoo that affected three billion user accounts and larger than a 2017 episode involving the credit bureau Equifax.
Marriott (via Dave Kennedy):
For some, the information also includes payment card numbers and payment card expiration dates, but the payment card numbers were encrypted using Advanced Encryption Standard encryption (AES-128). There are two components needed to decrypt the payment card numbers, and at this point, Marriott has not been able to rule out the possibility that both were taken.
Bob Burrough:
Generally, business executives don’t know what questions to ask to make sure this doesn’t happen. But worse, most professional software developers don’t either.
The best way to prevent data from being leaked is to not store it.
Nick Heer:
Think about it: a breach of tens- or hundreds-of-millions of individuals’ extremely private information — including, in this case, passport numbers and hashes of credit card numbers — couldn’t happen if the system were designed to purge this information at the earliest possible chance.
Perry E. Metzger:
Today’s news about the Marriott breach should finally drive home a lesson that has been missed for years now: “we’ve been doing what every other big company does” means you are insecure and have to change your ways, because the median large company has terrible security.
Brian Krebs:
The hotel chain did not say precisely when in 2014 the breach was thought to have begun, but it’s worth noting that Starwood disclosed its own breach involving more than 50 properties in November 2015, just days after being acquired by Marriott. According to Starwood’s disclosure at the time, that earlier breach stretched back at least one year — to November 2014.
Back in 2015, Starwood said the intrusion involved malicious software installed on cash registers at some of its resort restaurants, gift shops and other payment systems that were not part of the its guest reservations or membership systems.
However, this would hardly be the first time a breach at a major hotel chain ballooned from one limited to restaurants and gift shops into a full-blown intrusion involving guest reservation data.
Brian Krebs:
But anytime we see such a colossal intrusion go undetected for so long, the ultimate cause is usually a failure to adopt the most important principle in cybersecurity defense that applies to both corporations and consumers: Assume you are compromised.
[…]
This involves not only focusing on breach prevention, but at least equally on intrusion detection and response. It starts with the assumption that failing to respond quickly when an adversary gains an initial foothold is like allowing a tiny cancer cell to metastasize into a much bigger illness that — left undetected for days, months or years — can cost the entire organism dearly.
The companies with the most clueful leaders are paying threat hunters to look for signs of new intrusions. They’re reshuffling the organizational chart so that people in charge of security report to the board, the CEO, and/or chief risk officer — anyone but the Chief Technology Officer.
Adam D’Angelo (via Troy Hunt):
For approximately 100 million Quora users, the following information may have been compromised:
- Account information, e.g. name, email address, encrypted (hashed) password, data imported from linked networks when authorized by users
- Public content and actions, e.g. questions, answers, comments, upvotes
- Non-public content and actions, e.g. answer requests, downvotes, direct messages (note that a low percentage of Quora users have sent or received such messages)
Questions and answers that were written anonymously are not affected by this breach as we do not store the identities of people who post anonymous content.
Nick Heer:
However, I want to give kudos to Quora on three fronts.
Update (2018-12-19): Bruce Schneier:
The New York Times and Reuters are reporting that China was behind the recent hack of Marriott Hotels. Note that this is still uncomfirmed, but interesting if it is true.
See also: Hacker News.
Update (2019-03-12): Catalin Cimpanu (via Hacker News):
Marriott International CEO Arne Sorenson testified in front of a US Senate subcommittee yesterday, revealing new details about a security breach the hotel chain disclosed last year.
Speaking in front of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, Sorenson apologized to the company’s customers but also shot down rumors that China was behind the hack.
Update (2024-05-03): See also: Bruce Schneier (2020).
Evan Schuman (2024, via Hacker News):
For more than five years, Marriott has defended a massive 2018 data breach by arguing that its encryption level (AES-128) was so strong that the case against it should be dismissed. But attorneys for the hotel chain admitted in an April 10 hearing that it had never used AES-128 during the time of the breach.
In fact, it hadn’t been using any encryption at all at the time but rather had been using secure hash algorithm 1 (SHA-1), which is a hashing mechanism and not encryption.
Breach China Security Web
Zac Bowden (via Wojtek Pietrusiewicz):
Microsoft’s Edge web browser has seen little success since its debut on Windows 10 in 2015. Built from the ground up with a new rendering engine known as EdgeHTML, Microsoft Edge was designed to be fast, lightweight, and secure, but it launched with a plethora of issues that resulted in users rejecting it early on. Edge has since struggled to gain traction, thanks to its continued instability and lack of mindshare, from users and web developers.
Because of this, I’m told that Microsoft is throwing in the towel with EdgeHTML and is instead building a new web browser powered by Chromium, which uses a similar rendering engine first popularized by Google’s Chrome browser known as Blink. Codenamed “Anaheim,” this new browser for Windows 10 will replace Edge as the default browser on the platform, according to my sources, who wish to remain anonymous.
Update (2018-12-05): Kuba Suder:
This is so stupid, we’ve spent like a decade fighting the IE monoculture, only to replace it now with a Chrome monoculture And that basically leaves 3 engines on the market, 2 of which share common history.
Update (2018-12-06): Joe Belfiore (Hacker News):
Microsoft Edge will now be delivered and updated for all supported versions of Windows and on a more frequent cadence. We also expect this work to enable us to bring Microsoft Edge to other platforms like macOS. Improving the web-platform experience for both end users and developers requires that the web platform and the browser be consistently available to as many devices as possible. To accomplish this, we will evolve the browser code more broadly, so that our distribution model offers an updated Microsoft Edge experience + platform across all supported versions of Windows, while still maintaining the benefits of the browser’s close integration with Windows.
Steve Troughton-Smith:
Gotta wonder why Microsoft didn’t co-opt Chrome long before this; why would anybody go download Google’s Chrome if the built-in Windows browser is basically the same thing
David Heinemeier Hansson:
Sad to see Microsoft throw in the towel on their own browser rendering engine. The web doesn’t benefit when developers are encouraged to “just test in Chrome” through consolidation. We need a strong, diverse set of browsers. HANG IN THERE FIREFOX!
Steve Troughton-Smith:
Microsoft Edge coming to the Mac will be the first time Microsoft’s flagship browser has been on the platform since Internet Explorer 5.2.3, 15 years ago
Cabel Sasser:
IE Mac was the first browser to support alpha channeled png’s which we used on the Audion faces page for live previews with dragging etc.! And which Microsoft then used for press demos! What a great browser back then — incredible and groundbreaking
Steve Troughton-Smith:
IE for Mac’s download manager & progressbar icons for in-progress downloads were some of my favorite features. Took Safari a while to pick that up
John Siracusa:
It was also the first browser on the Mac to have decent CSS1 support. It was the web developer’s browser for a while.
Jimmy Grewal:
My favorite release of Mac Internet Explorer was the bootleg version 5.5 we put together at MacHack 2000 that was only available on the MacHack CD. 48 hours of caffeine & sugar fueled coding by @t, @sfalken, and @MafVosburgh...built & tested by me.
Jesse Vincent:
“Konqueror” always felt like it was a bit much for a browser name. Now I can see that it was just prescient.
See also: Zac Bowden, Tom Warren, MacRumors.
Update (2018-12-07): Chris Beard (Hacker News):
From a social, civic and individual empowerment perspective ceding control of fundamental online infrastructure to a single company is terrible. This is why Mozilla exists. We compete with Google not because it’s a good business opportunity. We compete with Google because the health of the internet and online life depend on competition and choice. They depend on consumers being able to decide we want something better and to take action.
Will Microsoft’s decision make it harder for Firefox to prosper? It could. Making Google more powerful is risky on many fronts. And a big part of the answer depends on what the web developers and businesses who create services and websites do. If one product like Chromium has enough market share, then it becomes easier for web developers and businesses to decide not to worry if their services and sites work with anything other than Chromium. That’s what happened when Microsoft had a monopoly on browsers in the early 2000s before Firefox was released. And it could happen again.
Oluseyi Sonaiya:
The ideal behind Web Standards is that the specification is implementation-independent, and that competing implementations drive different vendors to improve. If the majority of browsers coalesce around a single implementation, though, we lose that impetus.
Rui Carmo:
I’m actually kind of sad about this because it risks turning the Web into a monoculture again. Even if it does have the potential of making it substantially easier to build and maintain web sites in the long run.
John Gruber:
This is really rather stunning news, especially when you think back to the browser war in the 1990s. And I don’t think it’s a good thing for the web.
Update (2018-12-10): Owen Williams (via Meek Geek):
Yes, that’s right: not only will Microsoft shift to Chromium as its rendering engine, it’ll begin shipping Edge across all supported desktop devices on the planet, and it’ll start building it into the web platform within Windows.
This is huge news for the industry across the board, and is poised to propel the web to a first-class experience on par with native application development, as well as making it a much better experience for a broad swathe of internet users who might not have power over what browser they’re using.
The web has already swallowed native application development whole, but it’s about to get a lot better.
[…]
The strategy differences here are very different to that of Apple, which has largely ignored any feature of the open web that might threaten its own dominance. There’s no web-based notifications in Safari on iOS, or the ability to execute tasks or caching in the background, and so on.
I kind of wish Apple would switch to Chromium as well. With the rest of the world—especially on the desktop—mostly using the same browser, even popular sites can’t always be bothered to make things work well with Safari.
Dan Masters:
For all the criticism Google receives regarding Chrome, they've added some very pro-consumer features over the years.
This one is particularly interesting, as we usually associate sneaky subscription signups with native apps, but it clearly is a problem on the web too.
Update (2018-12-11): John Gruber:
Which, in turn, makes me wonder what the endgame will look like with Microsoft adopting Chrome. Is Microsoft really going to stick with Chrome, under Google’s ultimate control, or will they fork it, the way Google forked WebKit?
Dan Masters:
I’ve seen the same problem[…]
Update (2018-12-19): Jack Wellborn:
Switching to Chromium in particular contributes to the problem that gave us awfulness of Internet Explorer – lack of diversity. Chrome controls somewhere between 60 and 70% of browser share, and while that’s no where near Internet Explorer’s former dominance, there have already been a handful sites that are Chrome-only/Chrome-first. Even more worrisome is the number of other Web Developers that disdainfully treat non-Chrome browsers as aberrations.
See also: Hacker News.
Chromium History Internet Explorer Mac macOS 10.14 Mojave Microsoft Edge Web Windows Windows 10