ICEBlock, an iOS Exclusive

This is the biggest problem with Apple's AppStore: it can be used as a way to suppress freedom.

For example, could you imagine the outcome for PGP had Zimmerman's software been limited to the App Store model?

Apple always prohibited apps that let you know where DUI checkpoints are. As far as I know I they were not compelled by law enforcement to have that policy (I could be wrong about that though but I believe there are DUI checkpoint finder websites out there). This is kind of the same thing?

The name of the app is ice block. "Block" is in the title. it's clear that the target audience is people trying to evade law enforcement. Regardless of anyone's stance as it relates to the illegal immigration debate I don't think anyone is using the "ICEBlock" app just to know where ICE is, just to jot it down.

Would this even be an argument if there was a CopBlock app where people could report the location of police officers, particularly useful for gang members to avoid the police in inner cities?

I mean whether the app's existence is illegal? Probably not but what do I know about the law? Its presence in the App Store does imply Apple's endorsement, somewhat. So that's a problem for Apple. They've removed apps that are far less controversial than this.

>This is the biggest problem with Apple's AppStore: it can be used as a way to suppress freedom.

By locking down the platform and making everything go through the App Store they put themselves in the middle of political arguments they otherwise would avoid. So yea. They don't want to piss off "Daddy Trump" and they also don't want to piss off liberal tech people like Gruber.

> Would this even be an argument if there was a CopBlock app where people could report the location of police officers, particularly useful for gang members to avoid the police in inner cities?

Or for people who want to target said cops or ICE officers with violence.

@gildarts

Shoe’s on the other foot, pal. Hence the need for an app or website like this.

> But doesn’t the database still exist with iOS, and it could just be subpoenaed from Apple?

Yes. Someone has to know who the push notification is going to and for iOS I have to assume it's Apple. iOS is "privacy-preserving" in the sense that it hides your identity from the notifier, but the threat here is the government, not the developers of ICEBlock.

I'm not deeply familiar with the tech, but this seems like the problem that Tor was designed to solve. It seems likely to me that it would be easier to integrate Tor-based notifications into Android than iOS for a bunch of reasons.

A bit confused about why this was even developed as an iOS app in the first place. Surely this would make more sense on the web?

@Tom: I mean, supporting people targeting law enforcement officers, or helping people evade those officers, while they are performing their lawful duties is certainly a choice.

There’s a misapprehension here. The app tracks folks wearing masks and not identifying as law enforcement personnel. Surely if any legitimate government employee is accidentally tracked in the app they can present a photo ID and be removed.

"helping people evade those officers, while they are performing their lawful duties is certainly a choice."

You'd make the exact opposite argument under different circumstances.

“Lawful duties,” of course, being the extremely questionable term here.

Goverment exists to protect its borders.

Counterpoint: no, it doesn't.

@pirijan why indeed.

Apparently because Apple has successfully brainwashed the world and made everyone forget that the web exists

And yeah Apple does put itself in the middle of everything politically by choosing to be the only way to distribute software on iOS. Again, a choice they made and continue to make, not just something that happened to them they are forced to deal with.

> Goverment exists to protect its borders.

Partially yes. Just to add America has one of the most welcoming legal immigration policies in the entire world. Try immigrating to Japan or Australia. Good look with that

Any country that doesn't defend its borders both literally and metaphorically doesn't remain a country for long. That's not a political statement, just a historical fact.

There literally are countries right now that do not defend their borders and yet remain. But really, that is beside the point. What strikes me about this conversation is how cowardly the comments are.

You write about "law enforcement performing their lawful duties" and say stuff like "Goverment exists to protect its borders" as if that was what any of this was about. It's not. This is about the government taking brown people off the streets and putting them in concentration camps. That is what you are arguing for, not "protecting borders" or "lawful duties." But you're too craven to say it, so you have to make proxy arguments about "protecting borders."

If you're so ashamed of your own opinion that you can't even plainly state it, change your opinion.

Government exists to enforce all of its laws, border laws included. There aren't many (any?) major countries that allow you to just move in, no questions asked. There are nations that have agreements to allow travel in both directions because they have decided it is of mutual benefit (for ex: Uk and Ireland).

When you break certain laws you can end up getting yourself detained, jailed, imprisoned, whatever you want to call it.

Being "brown" isn't a requirement for getting detained by ICE. Being in the country illegally is. I don't think it is accurate at all to describe someone being detained for breaking the law, as being put in a concentration camp.

@Nick M

The push notification can be a local notification, so no data trail.

If I were building this, there’d be a big core data database that everyone has a copy of and syncs live via push.
Mirroring a Core Data store with CloudKit
And
Mirroring a Core Data store with CloudKit

The app compares user’s location with data in the local database, and displays a *local* (not push) notification if some ICE activity is nearby.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserNotifications/UNNotificationRequest

Submissions would go through a forgetful proxy / remixer before going into the database.

This way, Apple doesn’t know who is being notified, who submits what, and doesn’t know who is seeing annything. It only knows who downloaded it, and since there’s nothing illegal about downloading it (or reporting ICE sightings), I think users are pretty safe.

> It only knows who downloaded it, and since there’s nothing illegal about downloading it (or reporting ICE sightings), I think users are pretty safe.

It's not about the legality of using the app. If the gov't can identify who is listening for these notifications. A high percentage of these people are likely in the country illegally. Who else would ever use this? Check the names of the device owners, flag the ones who are here illegally, find and deport them. The app will essentially end up doing exactly the opposite of what it says it's trying to do.

>The push notification can be a local notification, so no data trail.

I don't think using local notifications causes there to be no data trail. I have a CloudKit app. I use local notifications in response to CloudKit pushes (CKSubscription something something). But isn't the push stuff with the device ids just being handled on Apple's end in the CloudKit framework? It doesn't matter that I use a local notification to display the banner for my own convenience. So it's still kind of the same issue?

@pirijan

It would've made even more sense had it been not that blatant both in its name and stated purpose. Something more subtle, like an app that notifies about traffic jams, best discounts in local stores, whatever.

Regarding 'gangs would use', they prolly do already in group chats on whatever common messenger that is out there.

Good article summarizing the issues with ICEBlock:
https://micahflee.com/unfortunately-the-iceblock-app-is-activism-theater/