Apple “Approved” Hot Tub Porn App

I cannot find a sad violin small enough to play for Apple.

How about they never inflicted this notarization garbage on us in the first place? I'm not usually one to engage in schadenfreude but in this case they deserve to have this come back to bite them.

Epic can frame it any way they want, but they're absolutely responsible for the distribution of porn, having funded the AltStore.

And Jobs point isn't nonsensical -- Apple, as far as it can reasonably control it, works to keep porn off the iPhone. They are limited in what they can do with a web browser or with highly popular sites. Welcome to the real world. Jobs didn't add that in to his email because it would have been 500 words long. Oh, no, the horror!

This whole conversation is a "gotcha" one where people are parsing Apple's statements and actions to triumphantly show how hypocritical they are instead of recognizing the messiness of the whole situation.

Not one person quoted had the courage to actually say whether Apple *should* allow porn on the store or not. There's some courage for you.

@Total The reason that Epic is entangled in this at all is that Apple is trying to make money from the apps that they supposedly want nothing to do with.

No one’s forcing Apple to try to have it both ways. Jobs didn’t have to pretend that you need to buy an Android phone to watch porn. He could have just said that they don’t endorse it. They could admit, as Gruber says, that their platform/business interests take priority.

@Total If even Gruber isn’t stepping up to defend Apple—especially when Epic and Sweeney are involved—you know you’re on shaky ground.

And, yeah, if Apple insists on being the gatekeeper, then they absolutely need to allow porn. Otherwise, it’s just corporate censorship. A handful of millionaires in Cupertino don’t get to make that call. If anyone does—and that’s a big if—it should be democratically elected governments, not a private company dictating morality at scale.

“ The reason that Epic is entangled in this at all is that Apple is trying to make money from the apps that they supposedly want nothing to do with.”

Which says nothing about whether they funded porn.

“No one's forcing…”

Tell me you didn’t read my post without…

@matthew

Close, but no cigar. Would you as decision maker allow porn apps? Make the call.

@Total Apple has positioned itself as the sole gatekeeper for iOS apps. If they’re going to insist on that role, then, yes, they should allow porn—because the alternative is corporate censorship, which is neither their right nor their responsibility. A private company dictating morality at scale is a dangerous precedent, and it’s absurd to suggest a group of executives in Cupertino should be the ones drawing the line on what consenting adults can access.

Would I, personally, allow porn apps? The better question is: should a private company have the power to decide? No, they shouldn’t. That decision—if it needs to be made—should be in the hands of democratically elected governments, not a tech monopoly picking winners and losers based on arbitrary policies.

But given you will insist on the decision being mine, the answer is simple: Yes.

And as for Steve Jobs—the man you’re defending and the so-called moral culture he fostered at Apple—maybe take a deeper look into his own morality. This is the same Jobs who initially denied the existence of his daughter, Lisa Brennan-Jobs, even after a DNA test showed a 94.1% probability of paternity. He publicly suggested in Time magazine that he couldn’t be her father because, according to him, her mother had supposedly slept with “28% of the male population of the United States.” He used lawyers to avoid paying child support for as long as possible, effectively leaving his daughter and her mother struggling in poverty while he was on his way to becoming one of the wealthiest men in Silicon Valley. Even in his final years, he continued to be emotionally abusive toward her.

And if all of that weren’t enough, Jobs—who supposedly stood for “morality” at Apple—was perfectly happy to sit down for an interview with Playboy magazine. So much for the moral high ground.

If Apple’s leadership wants to be the moral arbiters of what adults can and cannot access, they should at least be held to a higher standard than a man who spent years pretending his own daughter didn’t exist—until the day he decided she was worth acknowledging.

@total
“Epic can frame it any way they want, but they're absolutely responsible for the distribution of porn, having funded the AltStore.“

Then Apple is totally responsible for the creation of porn contents, selling mobile devices with cameras that are not just used to shoot documentaries or YouTube shorts. Do you see the flaw in your logic?

“But given you will insist on the decision being mine, the answer is simple: Yes.”

Good job! You’re not a coward, though it was cowardly to immediately pivot to an attack on Jobs. As I was pointing out, the world's not remotely perfect. You want to be evaluated by your worst behavior, over and over?

@someone

Wait, you’ve discovered that Apple can’t control everything? What point did I make in my post, exactly, and why do you think it’s a gotcha to repeat my own argument?

@total Trying to shift the conversation away from the core argument (Apple’s role as a gatekeeper) and reframe my critique of Jobs as an unfair personal attack is pure deflection and a weak attempt to dodge the actual argument. Let’s be very clear: pointing out Apple’s hypocrisy isn’t a ‘pivot,’ it’s a direct counter to the idea that their moral stance on porn is anything but arbitrary.

Jobs isn’t just ‘any person’—he set Apple’s present-day culture, including its puritanical policies. If Apple wants to claim the high ground on what’s ‘appropriate,’ then its founder’s personal history is absolutely relevant. This is the same Jobs who cheated his own co-founder, Steve Wozniak, suppressed workers’ wages through illegal anti-poaching agreements, and fostered a corporate culture of exploitation that still thrives today. Since Jobs’ return, Apple has never been about fairness—just control, profit, and making sure they always get their cut.

And no, this isn’t about ‘evaluating someone by their worst behavior.’ It’s about recognizing that Apple’s so-called morality has always been selective, self-serving, and inconsistent. A company that was built on screwing over the very people who made it successful has no business pretending to be a moral authority. They’ve spent decades believing they’re entitled to suppress competition, manipulate labor markets, and take a 30% cut of everything—so of course they think they should decide what people can and can’t access on their own devices.

That’s the real conversation—the one you keep running from.

This discussion is so stupidly American, it’s hurting my brain. Why should porn be treated differently than violence or religion? These things are equally dangerous for children to consume, yet Americans don’t have a problem with those. From a European perspective this is entirely nonsensical.

1. Apple didn't smack a seal of approval on a porn app
2. Neither did Epic
3. EU hasn't forced anyone to publish porn
4. Porn isn't illegal in the EU

The rest is just drama that Apple brought on themselves.

Ooh the knots marketing can bind you into!

They should have said the app was notarized, but that didn't sound sexy, so they called it "approved".

Cry me a river...

And yes, I agree Rene, in that violence is much more dangerous. As to religion or ideology... it really depends what kind.

Does european TV show porn in the afternoon, but not action movies or series? Interesting.

@Anonymous

"Wait, you’ve discovered that Apple can’t control everything? What point did I make in my post, exactly, and why do you think it’s a gotcha to repeat my own argument?"

Which post? Or are you referring to the post from Total?

But isn't it rich how concerned Apple is about children being exposed to porn, yet predatory, addictive games that use boatloads of dark patterns to drain their parents' wallet are perfectly fine?

A lot of good points being made here. Core issue was quoted in the original post. Porn or not, Apple can’t have it both ways with notarization. Either they don’t do it, or they notarize everything that’s not malware without comment, or they use it as a business tool the way they use the App Store. Those are the only three options, and they have clearly chosen number three.

Either they change their policy back to what they currently claim it is and stop banning things they think will hurt their business, or yes they did choose to allow this app. It can’t run unless they allow it, that is the way they chose to design the system. Nobody made them do that. In fact many organizations tried to make them do the exact opposite.

As for the moral issue, that’s gone so far off the rails in every area these days I don’t think anyone has the moral high ground to declare anything. Show me one person or organization in a position of real power that are not complete hypocrites.