{"id":47874,"date":"2025-05-27T15:24:28","date_gmt":"2025-05-27T19:24:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/?p=47874"},"modified":"2025-05-30T16:02:39","modified_gmt":"2025-05-30T20:02:39","slug":"external-payments-from-the-hey-app","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2025\/05\/27\/external-payments-from-the-hey-app\/","title":{"rendered":"External Payments From the HEY App"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/world.hey.com\/dhh\/hey-is-finally-for-sale-on-the-iphone-a08cb218\">David Heinemeier Hansson<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/world.hey.com\/dhh\/hey-is-finally-for-sale-on-the-iphone-a08cb218\"><p>Well, we risked everything, but also <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hey.com\/apple\/path\/\">secured a four-year truce<\/a>, and now <a href=\"https:\/\/9to5mac.com\/2025\/05\/01\/epic-win-apple-link-out-to-web-free-reign\/\">near-total victory<\/a> is at hand: <a href=\"https:\/\/apps.apple.com\/us\/app\/hey-email\/id1506603805\">HEY is finally for sale on the iPhone in the US!<\/a><\/p><p>Credit for this amazing turn of events goes to Epic Games founders <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/TimSweeneyEpic\">Tim Sweeney<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/MarkRein\">Mark Rein<\/a>, who did what no small developer like us could ever dream of doing: they <a href=\"https:\/\/www.macrumors.com\/2025\/05\/06\/epic-games-legal-fees\/\">spent over $100 million to sue Apple<\/a> in court. And while the first round yielded very little progress, Apple&rsquo;s (<a href=\"https:\/\/fingfx.thomsonreuters.com\/gfx\/legaldocs\/zjpqagqoypx\/Epic%20v%20Apple%20-%20referral%20order%20-%20Gonzalez%20Rogers%2020250430.pdf\">possibly criminal<\/a>) <a href=\"https:\/\/www.reuters.com\/sustainability\/boards-policy-regulation\/us-judge-rules-apple-violated-order-reform-app-store-2025-04-30\/\">contempt of court<\/a> is what ultimately <a href=\"https:\/\/www.macrumors.com\/2025\/04\/30\/apple-app-store-anti-steering-injunction-violation\/\">delivered the resolution<\/a>. Thanks to their fight for Fortnite, app developers everywhere are now allowed to link out of apps to their own web-based payment system in the US store (but, sadly, nowhere else yet).<\/p><p>This is all we ever wanted from Apple: to have a way to distribute our iPhone apps and keep the customer relationship by billing directly. The 30% toll gets all the attention, and it is ludicrously egregious, but to us, it&rsquo;s just as much about <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hey.com\/apple\/iap\/\">retaining that direct customer relationship<\/a>, so we can help folks with refunds, so they don&rsquo;t tie their billing for a multi-platform email system to a single manufacturer.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/daringfireball.net\/linked\/2025\/05\/26\/hey-now-for-sale-from-iphone-app\">John Gruber<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/daringfireball.net\/linked\/2025\/05\/26\/hey-now-for-sale-from-iphone-app\">\n<p>This is a win for users, and Apple won&rsquo;t lose a cent from commissions from any of these apps.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p>Previously:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2025\/05\/14\/critical-warning-for-external-purchases-in-app-store\/\">Critical Warning for External Purchases in App Store<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2025\/05\/02\/app-review-guidelines-updated-for-epic-anti-steering\/\">App Review Guidelines Updated for Epic Anti-Steering<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2024\/01\/05\/hey-calendar-rejected-from-the-app-store\/\">HEY Calendar Rejected From the App Store<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/25\/hey-approved-with-trial\/\">HEY Approved With Trial<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/19\/it-doesnt-work\/\">It Doesn&rsquo;t Work<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/19\/have-you-contributed-any-revenue\/\">Have You Contributed Any Revenue?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2020\/06\/16\/hey-rejected-from-the-app-store\/\">HEY Rejected From the App Store<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2018\/09\/28\/basecamp-app-rejected-for-including-help-link\/\">Basecamp App Rejected for Including Help Link<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n<p id=\"external-payments-from-the-hey-app-update-2025-05-30\">Update (<a href=\"#external-payments-from-the-hey-app-update-2025-05-30\">2025-05-30<\/a>): <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/dhh\/status\/1927685809282433201\">David Heinemeier Hansson<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/x.com\/dhh\/status\/1927685809282433201\"><p>Apple is back to their intolerable bullshit with the App Store. Despite approving our initial HEY update with web billing immediately, they&rsquo;ve now sat on a bug-fix update for over a week. Are they gearing up for another shakedown or is this just the regular malice lottery?<\/p><p>[&#8230;]<\/p><p>Would you look at that! Not a peep for a fucking week. Then a few tweets and through it went. I mean, it&rsquo;s nice that Apple have turned on notifications for my tweets, but this is no way to live. Few devs have a bullhorn like this.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/jeiting\/status\/1927700847854493822\">Jacob Eiting<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/x.com\/jeiting\/status\/1927700847854493822\"><p>My problem with Tim [Sweeney] and David is not that they don&rsquo;t have a point. They absolutely do, Apple exploits a dominate market position to be able to get what they get.<\/p><p>My problem is that they are not real stakeholders in the App Store and apps as a way of life. Tim has plenty of other income sources, David runs a productivity SaaS. The App Store to them is mostly an extractive add-on.<\/p><p>So when they start white-knighting for us, it comes from a place of never having really benefited from the App Store, not being dependent on it. Having no real stakes in it. We&rsquo;ve all been dealing with these problems for a decade plus, and yet working around them to create amazing software. These guys show up, get a rejection and have a meltdown. I&rsquo;ve dealt with more rejections than I can remember: you can get mad or you fix it and move on.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/KhalidWarsa\/status\/1927722729890816270\">Khalid Warsame<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/x.com\/KhalidWarsa\/status\/1927722729890816270\">\n<p>Or, hear me out, they&rsquo;re speaking out for us since they aren&rsquo;t risking losing their whole businesses. We can&rsquo;t do that or Apple will boot us out.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/marks_ftw\/status\/1927708903401472192\">Marks<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/x.com\/marks_ftw\/status\/1927708903401472192\">\n<p>They saw a problem and took action. Just because those of us who built our livelihoods in the App Store and learned to route around the problem, I&rsquo;d rather not have the problem to begin with.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/DamienPetrilli\/status\/1928099551962906865\">Damien Petrilli<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/x.com\/DamienPetrilli\/status\/1928099551962906865\">\n<p>As long as we can&rsquo;t install software without Apple approval AND signing, there is no freedom.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>David Heinemeier Hansson: Well, we risked everything, but also secured a four-year truce, and now near-total victory is at hand: HEY is finally for sale on the iPhone in the US!Credit for this amazing turn of events goes to Epic Games founders Tim Sweeney and Mark Rein, who did what no small developer like us [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"apple_news_api_created_at":"2025-05-27T19:24:30Z","apple_news_api_id":"105ac7d9-b6fa-4ab5-b7eb-7dcfd7a6ca48","apple_news_api_modified_at":"2025-05-30T20:02:43Z","apple_news_api_revision":"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA==","apple_news_api_share_url":"https:\/\/apple.news\/AEFrH2bb6SrW3633P16bKSA","apple_news_coverimage":0,"apple_news_coverimage_caption":"","apple_news_is_hidden":false,"apple_news_is_paid":false,"apple_news_is_preview":false,"apple_news_is_sponsored":false,"apple_news_maturity_rating":"","apple_news_metadata":"\"\"","apple_news_pullquote":"","apple_news_pullquote_position":"","apple_news_slug":"","apple_news_sections":"\"\"","apple_news_suppress_video_url":false,"apple_news_use_image_component":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[1846,91,2762,1954,31,2586,26],"class_list":["post-47874","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-technology","tag-app-review","tag-appstore","tag-external-ios-payments","tag-hey","tag-ios","tag-ios-18","tag-iosapp"],"apple_news_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47874","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=47874"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47874\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":47907,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47874\/revisions\/47907"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=47874"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=47874"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=47874"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}