{"id":41241,"date":"2023-11-27T14:56:44","date_gmt":"2023-11-27T19:56:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/?p=41241"},"modified":"2023-11-28T09:16:44","modified_gmt":"2023-11-28T14:16:44","slug":"moving-on-from-xojo","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/11\/27\/moving-on-from-xojo\/","title":{"rendered":"Moving on From Xojo"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/ohanaware.com\/blog\/2023\/10\/Time-to-move-on-2.html\">Sam Rowlands<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/ohanaware.com\/blog\/2023\/10\/Time-to-move-on-2.html\"><p>Since 1998, I&rsquo;ve built every single Mac app with the Xojo development tool (Aka Real Studio and REALbasic).<\/p><p>Over the last &#xBE; of a decade, Xojo started ignoring bugs, feature requests and industry trends. New features felt rushed, incomplete and sometimes unusable. Dark mode support and concurrency are two prime examples. Something is clearly wrong.<\/p><p>Xojo had embarked on a multi-year project of &ldquo;2.0 All The Things&trade;&rdquo;. All Xojo customers must now experience learning a new programming language.<\/p><p>[&#8230;]<\/p><p>In a few short years, Xojo turned their most evangelical, enthusiastic, knowledgable, experienced and loyal customers, into enemies.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20200813015842\/https:\/\/www.bkeeneybriefs.com\/2019\/11\/im-not-xojos-target-audience-is-anyone\/\">Bob Keeney<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20200813015842\/https:\/\/www.bkeeneybriefs.com\/2019\/11\/im-not-xojos-target-audience-is-anyone\/\">\n<p>One of the topics that I brought up was that these issues (the new Event names and marking anything from API 1.0 Deprecated &#x2013; even though they&rsquo;ll be around for a many years to come) were brought up early and often in the beta program.  I said that honestly, it made us feel that our input is not valued.<\/p>\n<p>[&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p>I&rsquo;ve been around a long time and have remained friends with some of those former Xojo developers.  Some leave because of long-term bugs.  It is disheartening to report a bug that affects your app that gets ignored for years on end.<\/p>\n<p>[&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p>Some leave because there is a lack of capabilities in the product.  iOS (but also true for all targets) is painfully lacking in capabilities that force you into learning complex declares.  There are no built-in controls for Date, Time, Timestamp, or numbers only Text Fields, exporting to PDF, no ability for applications to have a report editor, a good grid, etc.  Some of this is because Xojo is the lowest common denominator between Mac, Windows, and Linux (for desktop) and doing these things cross-platform is really hard.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/alwaysbusycorner.com\/2018\/03\/07\/rb-xojo-goodbye-you-old-dinosaur\/\">Alain Bailleul<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/alwaysbusycorner.com\/2018\/03\/07\/rb-xojo-goodbye-you-old-dinosaur\/\">\n<p>When I first started this blog, I was a huge fan of RB.  The familiar VB6 syntax was what me attracted to it in the first place. I had a VB6 background, and with Microsoft abandoning it, RB was a nice alternative.<\/p>\n<p>[&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p>But because of Xojos decision a couple of years ago to start using a new syntax framework, most of these projects won&rsquo;t work anymore without a major overhaul.  So I feel it is time to let them go.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p>Previously:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/11\/17\/mail-extension-postmortem\/\">Mail Extension Postmortem<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/11\/16\/why-do-people-still-use-vba\/\">Why Do People Still Use VBA?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/06\/09\/feedback-through-an-intermediary\/\">Feedback Through an Intermediary<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2012\/09\/06\/code-by-kevin-leaves-the-mac-app-store\/\">Code by Kevin Leaves the Mac App Store<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n<p id=\"moving-on-from-xojo-update-2023-11-28\">Update (2023-11-28): <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/digicalidesign\/status\/1729262268742033478\">Patrice Calligaris<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/digicalidesign\/status\/1729262268742033478\">\n<p>Good points, I think their mistake is to support all platforms. Too big for a small team. They should just focus on macOS and Windows, desktop apps where there is a market. Now for Windows apps, you need a specific project to support new UI items, ridiculous!<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/jeannot.hashnode.dev\/xojo-in-the-2020s\">Jeannot Muller<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/jeannot.hashnode.dev\/xojo-in-the-2020s\"><p>I initially didn&rsquo;t want to write anything more about Xojo. However, <a href=\"https:\/\/forum.xojo.com\/t\/request-of-true-multi-core-threads\/74516\">this thread<\/a> reaffirms my decision to learn new tools nearly two years ago and ultimately part ways with Xojo.<\/p><p>[&#8230;]<\/p><p>In my opinion, Realbasic&rsquo;s former strength of having a visual designer is increasingly overshadowed by various functional shortcomings and the prevalence of a 4-digit number of bugs.<\/p><p>Most notably, you purchase the &ldquo;Layout Manager&rdquo; at a steep cost. Naturally, it only functions within the Xojo IDE, which is significantly outdated. Not only is the autocomplete feature slow and prone to errors, but we don&rsquo;t even want to discuss the absence of GIT integration. The Xojo IDE simply lacks everything that modern (and mostly free) IDEs provide in 2023.<\/p><p>Of course, the days when you could easily develop for multiple platforms from Realbasic \/ Xojo are long gone. The mobile modules require (no fault of Xojo) that you deal with XCode, Android Studio, certificates, CSS, JavaScript injections. If you don&rsquo;t use the overpriced but secure Xojo cloud, you will also have to deal with server configuration for the web or you will have to use a third-party software solution like &ldquo;<a href=\"https:\/\/strawberrysw.com\/lifeboat\/\">LifeBoat<\/a>&rdquo; (in addition to the plugins that you need to be able to work properly with Xojo). The same applies if you want to get mobile solutions into the stores. Then there is hardly any way for the hobbyist to avoid third-party software like &ldquo;<a href=\"https:\/\/ohanaware.com\/appwrapper\/\">App Wrapper<\/a>&rdquo;.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/ifnotnil.com\/t\/blog-post-preview-thoughts\/3639\">Bob Keeney<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/ifnotnil.com\/t\/blog-post-preview-thoughts\/3639\">\n<p>A decade ago, people would explore Xojo, but they soon realized that building a robust application required more effort than they could invest. Consequently, they often sought professional developers, like myself, to create or fix their applications. However, the demand for consulting work gradually declined, leaving fewer opportunities for developers. The viability of the Xojo ecosystem is intricately linked with the consultants who support it.<\/p>\n<p>[&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p>While Xojo introduced its Rapid Release Model years ago, the results have been less than stellar. Instead of large, more stable releases with occasional bug fixes, we received frequent but less substantial updates. These updates often fixed some bugs but introduced new ones, creating frustration.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/11\/27\/moving-on-from-xojo\/#comment-3999185\">parallels to macOS<\/a> are obvious.<\/p>\n\n<p>See also: <a href=\"https:\/\/ifnotnil.com\/t\/michael-tsai-just-posted-about-xojo\/3709\/3\">If Not Nil<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/ifnotnil.com\/t\/could-it-be-saved\/3603\">Could it be Saved?<\/a>.<\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sam Rowlands: Since 1998, I&rsquo;ve built every single Mac app with the Xojo development tool (Aka Real Studio and REALbasic).Over the last &#xBE; of a decade, Xojo started ignoring bugs, feature requests and industry trends. New features felt rushed, incomplete and sometimes unusable. Dark mode support and concurrency are two prime examples. Something is clearly [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"apple_news_api_created_at":"2023-11-27T19:56:47Z","apple_news_api_id":"39304696-ae19-47a9-a11f-a27aec1fede7","apple_news_api_modified_at":"2023-11-28T14:16:46Z","apple_news_api_revision":"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQ==","apple_news_api_share_url":"https:\/\/apple.news\/AOTBGlq4ZR6mhH6J67B_t5w","apple_news_coverimage":0,"apple_news_coverimage_caption":"","apple_news_is_hidden":false,"apple_news_is_paid":false,"apple_news_is_preview":false,"apple_news_is_sponsored":false,"apple_news_maturity_rating":"","apple_news_metadata":"\"\"","apple_news_pullquote":"","apple_news_pullquote_position":"","apple_news_slug":"","apple_news_sections":"\"\"","apple_news_suppress_video_url":false,"apple_news_use_image_component":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[4],"tags":[800,1805,75,46,30,32,2385,71,2074,2504],"class_list":["post-41241","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-programming-category","tag-concurrency","tag-dark-mode","tag-developertool","tag-languagedesign","tag-mac","tag-macapp","tag-macos-14-sonoma","tag-programming","tag-software-rewrite","tag-xojo"],"apple_news_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41241","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=41241"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41241\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":41252,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/41241\/revisions\/41252"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=41241"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=41241"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=41241"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}