{"id":38812,"date":"2023-03-20T15:07:03","date_gmt":"2023-03-20T19:07:03","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/?p=38812"},"modified":"2023-04-03T11:21:22","modified_gmt":"2023-04-03T15:21:22","slug":"photos-data-loss-with-macos-13-3-beta","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/03\/20\/photos-data-loss-with-macos-13-3-beta\/","title":{"rendered":"Photos Data Loss With macOS 13.3 Beta"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.koingosw.com\/blog\/?action=view&amp;id=594\">Josh Hill<\/a> (via <a href=\"https:\/\/talk.tidbits.com\/t\/koingo-temporarily-shutting-down-due-to-data-loss\/21643\">Marquelle D. McKean<\/a>):<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/www.koingosw.com\/blog\/?action=view&amp;id=594\"><p>During a Europe trip in May 2022, I uploaded over 6,000 photos and hundreds of videos to the cloud. Upon editing and deleting some of the photos, I encountered an issue with Photos.app, which ultimately led to the complete wiping out of my entire cloud library. Despite my efforts to recover the lost data using tools such as Disk Drill and contacting Apple support, no useful recoverable files could be found. Unfortunately, Apple support refused to escalate the issue to the engineering team due to the use of a beta version of macOS Ventura.<\/p><p>The loss of my lifetime memories and tens of thousands of dollars&rsquo; worth of intellectual property is one of the most devastating experiences of my life. I believe it is crucial to highlight the importance of backing up all data, including cloud content, to prevent such a catastrophic loss.<\/p><p>As a result of this incident, Koingo Software is investing 100% of our resources into finding a solution; all standard business operations have been halted for the time being.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p>Cloud syncing is not a backup. Apple doesn&rsquo;t provide a way to directly download a backup of your photos, so you need to have Photos set to <strong>Download Originals to this Mac<\/strong>, which for most people means that they need to fit on your internal SSD. Then you can back them up yourself with Time Machine or to another cloud provider.<\/p>\n\n<p>The other issue here is using your real data with a beta OS version. It&rsquo;s easy to say that one shouldn&rsquo;t do that, and I try not to. But I can&rsquo;t really blame a developer for doing so because we want to identify bugs <em>before<\/em> they hit our customers, and many bugs don&rsquo;t show up when using a clean test system. There&rsquo;s no way to, say, use different Apple IDs for calendars and photos. And it&rsquo;s not as though release versions are free of data loss bugs, either. So I think the main problem was not realizing that his local backup needed to include the photo library.<\/p>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/talk.tidbits.com\/t\/koingo-temporarily-shutting-down-due-to-data-loss\/21643\/8?u=mjtsai\">Marquelle D. McKean<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/talk.tidbits.com\/t\/koingo-temporarily-shutting-down-due-to-data-loss\/21643\/8?u=mjtsai\"><p>By all reasonable standards, this is a person we would expect to have understanding of how these things work. You don&rsquo;t become the CEO of a small software company that&rsquo;s been in business for nearly 30 years by being ignorant about computers. (Okay, maybe some people do, but they generally don&rsquo;t stay in business for long after that.)<\/p>\n<p>If someone like Josh can get something so straightforward and fundamental so very wrong, is it any wonder &ldquo;ordinary&rdquo; users make the same mistake, over and over again?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p>Previously:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/02\/17\/ios-betas-tied-to-apple-id\/\">iOS Betas Tied to Apple ID<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/01\/30\/switching-on-icloud-photos\/\">Switching on iCloud Photos<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2021\/10\/01\/ios-15-messages-bug-deletes-saved-photos\/\">iOS 15 Messages Bug Deletes Saved Photos<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2021\/08\/31\/privacy-for-apple-employees\/\">Privacy for Apple Employees<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2019\/09\/26\/what-time-machine-doesnt-back-up\/\">What Time Machine Doesn&rsquo;t Back Up<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2020\/09\/23\/why-public-betas\/\">Why Public Betas?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2019\/10\/11\/mail-data-loss-in-macos-10-15\/\">Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2019\/07\/11\/icloud-data-loss-with-macos-10-15-and-ios-13-betas\/\">iCloud Data Loss With macOS 10.15 and iOS 13 Betas<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2015\/11\/30\/done-with-icloud-photo-library\/\">Done With iCloud Photo Library<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n<p id=\"photos-data-loss-with-macos-13-3-beta-update-2023-03-21\">Update (2023-03-21): <a href=\"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/@stucki\/110057580139804819\">Brian Stucki<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/mastodon.social\/@stucki\/110057580139804819\"><p>The greatest digital fear. I &ldquo;Optimize for Storage&rdquo; on MacBook and iPhone but I have a Mac mini in the data center set to &ldquo;Download Originals to this Mac&rdquo; and copy to an external hard drive. It does the same for full copies of iCloud Desktops and Documents. Automatic everything.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/pxlnv.com\/linklog\/ventura-icloud-photos-lost\/\">Nick Heer<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/pxlnv.com\/linklog\/ventura-icloud-photos-lost\/\">\n<p>I expect big cloud providers have more redundancies than most of us do, which makes it all the more disappointing that <a href=\"https:\/\/pxlnv.com\/linklog\/goodreads-deleted-account\/\">none<\/a> of this stuff <a href=\"https:\/\/pxlnv.com\/linklog\/moren-software-slip\/\">comes with a guarantee<\/a>. That is, even if Hill were only running production operating systems, Apple &mdash; like every major provider of consumer cloud services &mdash; does not obligate itself to perform data restoration. iCloud Photo Library may only officially be a syncing service, but it is easy to think of it as something more robust, especially when it is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.apple.com\/ca\/icloud\/\">described<\/a> as &ldquo;safe&rdquo;, where your photos are &ldquo;always available&rdquo;, &ldquo;without worrying about space on your devices&rdquo;. Not sure about you, but after reading Hill&rsquo;s experience, I am less concerned about disk space and more concerned about whether those photos are actually as safe as they ought to be.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p>I still think that a backup that&rsquo;s not in your direct control is not really a backup. But Apple could certainly do more here. Calendars and contacts are synced, but multiple versions are stored in the cloud, and you can roll them back. This should be extended to other types of data.<\/p>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.macrumors.com\/2023\/03\/21\/apple-seeds-macos-ventura-13-3-release-candidate\/\">Juli Clover<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/www.macrumors.com\/2023\/03\/21\/apple-seeds-macos-ventura-13-3-release-candidate\/\">\n<p>Apple today seeded the release candidate version of macOS Ventura 13.3 to developers for testing purposes, with the new software update coming a week after the release of the fourth macOS 13.3 beta.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p>I hope the bug is fixed, but I&rsquo;ve seen no reason to believe that it is.<\/p>\n\n<p>Previously:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2015\/08\/17\/icloud-can-now-restore-contacts-calendars-and-reminders\/\">iCloud Can Now Restore Contacts, Calendars, and Reminders<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n<p id=\"photos-data-loss-with-macos-13-3-beta-update-2023-03-23\">Update (2023-03-23): <a href=\"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@ezekiel\/110069302094802143\">Ezekiel Elin<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/hachyderm.io\/@ezekiel\/110069302094802143\"><p>I&rsquo;ve never seen any issues but 22E252 does run a Photos library upgrade<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/DamienPetrilli\/status\/1638827573223276545\">Damien Petrilli<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/DamienPetrilli\/status\/1638827573223276545\">\n<p>The Apple world is now used to beta being alpha quality without any questioning.<\/p>\n<p>No Beta should incur data loss, they are almost production ready. And if data loss happens, it should be escalated quickly because of the oversight of a critical bug.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n<p id=\"photos-data-loss-with-macos-13-3-beta-update-2023-03-28\">Update (2023-03-28): <a href=\"https:\/\/www.koingosw.com\/blog\/?action=view&amp;id=595\">Josh Hill<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/www.koingosw.com\/blog\/?action=view&amp;id=595\"><p>Regular every day phone-in support basically said there was nothing they could do &mdash; especially because we had used a beta. They wouldn&rsquo;t even submit a ticket to the engineering team and told me to submit a comment using the Feedback Assistant.app tool instead (which often feels like the lowest priority format simply for remitting bugs).<\/p><p>[&#8230;]<\/p><p>I wrote in to upper management and explained the situation, and made a desperate plea to anyone in the tech community who could help provide suggestions.<\/p><p>[&#8230;]<\/p><p>After a few days, Apple&rsquo;s backend engineers were finally able to recover what now seems to be all of the lost data, despite what the phone-in agent stated.<\/p><p>[&#8230;]<\/p><p>As it turns out, the &ldquo;feature&rdquo; is unlikely related to the beta at all after talking with Apple. The support agent I spoke with even told me he had the same problem.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The problem was triggered by creating a new local library and setting it as the system photo library.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/support.apple.com\/en-in\/HT204414\">Apple<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/support.apple.com\/en-in\/HT204414\"><p>If you designate a new library as the System Photo Library and then turn on iCloud Photos, the photos and videos in the new library will merge with those already in your iCloud Photos. Additionally, all photos and videos from iCloud will redownload to the device.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>However, instead it deleted all the photos from all devices, bypassing &ldquo;Recently Deleted.&rdquo; It sounds like this is not fixed in macOS 13.3.<\/p>\n\n<p>Previously:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2023\/03\/27\/macos-13-3\/\">macOS 13.3<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n<p id=\"photos-data-loss-with-macos-13-3-beta-update-2023-04-03\">Update (2023-04-03): <a href=\"https:\/\/pxlnv.com\/linklog\/lost-icloud-photos-found\/\">Nick Heer<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/pxlnv.com\/linklog\/lost-icloud-photos-found\/\">\n<p>I also do not love that Hill removed the original article and excluded it from the Wayback Machine because I think these things are important to document, even if they are later corrected[&#8230;]<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Josh Hill (via Marquelle D. McKean): During a Europe trip in May 2022, I uploaded over 6,000 photos and hundreds of videos to the cloud. Upon editing and deleting some of the photos, I encountered an issue with Photos.app, which ultimately led to the complete wiping out of my entire cloud library. Despite my efforts [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"apple_news_api_created_at":"2023-03-21T13:27:58Z","apple_news_api_id":"7c41143f-013c-44ab-8a9c-25e44015c590","apple_news_api_modified_at":"2023-04-03T15:21:25Z","apple_news_api_revision":"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABg==","apple_news_api_share_url":"https:\/\/apple.news\/AfEEUPwE8RKuKnCXkQBXFkA","apple_news_coverimage":0,"apple_news_coverimage_caption":"","apple_news_is_hidden":false,"apple_news_is_paid":false,"apple_news_is_preview":false,"apple_news_is_sponsored":false,"apple_news_maturity_rating":"","apple_news_metadata":"\"\"","apple_news_pullquote":"","apple_news_pullquote_position":"","apple_news_slug":"","apple_news_sections":"\"\"","apple_news_suppress_video_url":false,"apple_news_use_image_component":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[146,131,1016,16,1142,2223,2308,927],"class_list":["post-38812","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-technology","tag-backup","tag-bug","tag-datacide","tag-icloud","tag-icloud-photo-library","tag-macos-13-ventura","tag-macos-beta","tag-photos-app"],"apple_news_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38812","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=38812"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38812\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":38931,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38812\/revisions\/38931"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=38812"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=38812"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=38812"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}