{"id":23721,"date":"2018-12-20T16:50:56","date_gmt":"2018-12-20T21:50:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/?p=23721"},"modified":"2018-12-27T14:42:22","modified_gmt":"2018-12-27T19:42:22","slug":"the-case-against-marzipan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2018\/12\/20\/the-case-against-marzipan\/","title":{"rendered":"The Case Against Marzipan"},"content":{"rendered":"

Uluroo<\/a> (tweet<\/a>):<\/p>\n

\n

Touch and cursors are diametrically opposed interface design paradigms. To prioritize one is to compromise the other. Clearly it would be a mistake to put macOS on the iPhone, or to put iOS on the Mac. You would end up with an interface that was either too dense or too spread-out for the hardware it ran on. If it’s bad for operating systems<\/i> to cross the boundaries of platforms, why does anyone think it will be good for apps<\/i> to? They play by the same rules as anything else.<\/p>\n

[…]<\/p>\n

Apple should be setting the example for third-party developers. When it’s not making good software, developers shouldn’t be expected to. Apple is the root of the problem here; its apps, the shining beacon that attracts developers to this new API, are so bad it’s not even funny.<\/p>\n

[…]<\/p>\n

Marzipan is the antithesis of the Mac. It is a slow venom that, if it spreads far enough, will kill everything that makes the Mac worth having. At this point, it seems unlikely that Apple will administer the antidote and give Marzipan the axe. But that’s what needs to happen.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Previously: The Mojave Marzipan Apps<\/a>, Electron and the Decline of Native Apps<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n

Update (2018-12-23): Gregory Sapienza<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

Problem is: without this initiative Apple would be handing over macOS to the world of electron indefinitely<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Uluroo<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

I agree that Marzipan isn’t the bottom of the scale, but that doesn’t justify its existence. Another alternative is real, good<\/em> apps.<\/p>\n

Part of what makes this annoying is Apple’s own cross-platform work. For first-party apps, Apple should not consider Marzipan acceptable.<\/p>\n

Apple should be setting the example for developers. If News and Stocks had been well-made apps, optimized for macOS, maybe I wouldn’t be so convinced that Marzipan is bad. But Apple has not just made the development process easier — it’s lowered its own design standards.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Drew McCormack<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

Don’t really get the fear mongering around Marzipan. Will the Marzipan apps be great apps? Nope. Will it mean at least we have some apps where there were none? Yep. Is there always an opportunity for a good Mac dev to make a quality product stealing the whole show? Yep.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

At the micro level, this is probably true. But what about the ecosystem as a whole? It does not bode well that Apple is either unable or unwilling to do a good job—either for Apple’s commitment to the Mac platform or for the ability of Marzipan to make good apps possible. Secondly, an onslaught of these types of apps, blessed by Apple, will shift the standards of what users will put up with, reducing the taste for quality. And Apple will fill the Mac App Store with them, making it harder to find the gems.<\/p>\n\n

Craig Scott<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

It will result in an expectation of buy once, run everywhere - and the once will be at iOS prices. This will make Mac development less profitable - hence fewer high quality apps.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Alastair Houghton<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

IMO the real worry (as a user as much as a developer) is that maybe we’re importing the obnoxious iOS ecosystem and all its sharp practices to macOS?<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Update (2018-12-27): See also: The Talk Show<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n

Steve Troughton-Smith<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

Loved the Marzipan discussion, but people really need to temper the ‘of course Marzipan isn’t the \/real\/ solution’ discussion. What on earth about Apple’s last decade suggests to you that they have the bandwidth for yet a third platform in the wings to be the ‘real’ way forward?<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Steve Troughton-Smith<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

I don’t think you could choose to make Marzipan happen today, 8 yrs after they should have started that work, w\/o having spent yrs following the ideal path down the rabbit hole & leaving w\/ nothing to show for it. Should have been Plan A a decade ago, but no way it’s Plan A today<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Indeed, one of the most puzzling aspects of Marzipan is its timing. In 2011 or so, I thought Apple must be on the verge of introducing something like this. That it took so long and yet still seems so rough is surprising.<\/p>\n\n

Steve Troughton-Smith<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

Personally, I would treat Marzipan as an ‘all hands on deck’ project. Everybody across iOS and macOS at Apple needs to make this not just work, but be a great desktop platform, and the primary focus of desktop app development at Apple from now on. Dogfood the heck out of it<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

\n

I’m embracing it because either this works or the Mac dies. I don’t think it’s the right solution and it’s not what I would have done at this stage of the platform’s evolution. I would have committed to killing macOS a decade ago and spent the decade making iOS fit to replace it<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Francisco Tolmasky<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

It’s really hard to understand what is needed from a framework if you’re not writing innovative apps. If Apple were still striving to make iWork or FCP quality apps, they’d have more insight into other paths to follow. “Pure framework” design with only toy apps is dangerous.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Riccardo Mori<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

I would have committed to, you know, just make Mac OS –AND– iOS better. Apple ought to have enough resources to do just that.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n

Pieter Omvlee<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

I think it should have started 10 years ago with unifying basic APIs and classes and then build up from that. It’s a bit too late for that now so I understand the why behind Marzipan though it saddens me<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Uluroo (tweet): Touch and cursors are diametrically opposed interface design paradigms. To prioritize one is to compromise the other. Clearly it would be a mistake to put macOS on the iPhone, or to put iOS on the Mac. You would end up with an interface that was either too dense or too spread-out for the […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"apple_news_api_created_at":"2018-12-20T21:50:59Z","apple_news_api_id":"dad0dd4b-4829-493a-bb33-2cecc323f179","apple_news_api_modified_at":"2018-12-27T19:42:26Z","apple_news_api_revision":"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABA==","apple_news_api_share_url":"https:\/\/apple.news\/A2tDdS0gpSTq7MyzswyPxeQ","apple_news_coverimage":0,"apple_news_coverimage_caption":"","apple_news_is_hidden":false,"apple_news_is_paid":false,"apple_news_is_preview":false,"apple_news_is_sponsored":false,"apple_news_maturity_rating":"","apple_news_metadata":"\"\"","apple_news_pullquote":"","apple_news_pullquote_position":"","apple_news_slug":"","apple_news_sections":"\"\"","apple_news_suppress_video_url":false,"apple_news_use_image_component":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[1621,30,1609],"class_list":["post-23721","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","tag-marzipan","tag-mac","tag-macos-10-14"],"apple_news_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/23721","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=23721"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/23721\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":23784,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/23721\/revisions\/23784"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=23721"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=23721"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=23721"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}