Comments on: 64-bit Carbon http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/ Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:02:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Jon H http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-96486 Jon H Mon, 18 Jun 2007 00:20:14 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-96486 "Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Photoshop, Office and iTunes all Carbon apps? I doubt Carbon is going anywhere. Any word on whether the new Finder is now Cocoa based or still Carbon based?" Just because they won't be 64-bit doesn't mean they won't run on 64-bit Macs. Photoshop is one that you'd want to have in 64-bit, but Office, and iTunes not so much. "Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Photoshop, Office and iTunes all Carbon apps? I doubt Carbon is going anywhere. Any word on whether the new Finder is now Cocoa based or still Carbon based?"

Just because they won't be 64-bit doesn't mean they won't run on 64-bit Macs.

Photoshop is one that you'd want to have in 64-bit, but Office, and iTunes not so much.

]]> By: Gigaton http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94958 Gigaton Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:06:57 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94958 The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Look, Carbon isn't going anywhere. At least, not for a long time. Even most of the depreciated bits will still be there, although obviously, they won't be updated. Having said that, It's extremely foolish not use the most current and stable released API's at any given time. Stop fighting the last war. The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Look, Carbon isn't going anywhere. At least, not for a long time. Even most of the depreciated bits will still be there, although obviously, they won't be updated.

Having said that, It's extremely foolish not use the most current and stable released API's at any given time. Stop fighting the last war.

]]> By: Rainer Brockerhoff http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94738 Rainer Brockerhoff Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:40:10 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94738 Looks like HIToolbox won't have a 64-bit implementation, but you (and me) will certainly be able to call File Manager or whatever from our 64-bit Cocoa apps... Looks like HIToolbox won't have a 64-bit implementation, but you (and me) will certainly be able to call File Manager or whatever from our 64-bit Cocoa apps...

]]> By: Jesper http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94675 Jesper Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:38:05 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94675 Nat: Precisely. This is what all "Carbon must die" aficionados must plausibly explain before I'll give their ideas any leverage. "Carbon is dumb because I read somewhere that Cocoa is great" is not a valid explanation even if Cocoa is great (it is). Nat: Precisely. This is what all "Carbon must die" aficionados must plausibly explain before I'll give their ideas any leverage. "Carbon is dumb because I read somewhere that Cocoa is great" is not a valid explanation even if Cocoa is great (it is).

]]> By: aztech http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94674 aztech Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:37:05 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94674 Well, that's interesting, but Apple still has posted a 64-bit transition guide for Carbon. It's under NDA I'm sure, for registered developer access only, but the URL is: https://developer.apple.com/leopard/devcenter/docs/documentation/Carbon/Conceptual/Carbon64BitGuide/index.php Well, that's interesting, but Apple still has posted a 64-bit transition guide for Carbon. It's under NDA I'm sure, for registered developer access only, but the URL is:

https://developer.apple.com/leopard/devcenter/docs/documentation/Carbon/Conceptual/Carbon64BitGuide/index.php

]]> By: Nat http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94671 Nat Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:24:07 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94671 <i>Carbon dead as of 10.6?</i> Yeah, that's plausible. Hey Adobe, I know you just spent like two years coming out with universal versions of that Creative Suite thing, but we're tired of maintaining Carbon. Please rewrite it in Cocoa. Also, if you should run into MacBU, could you pass this along to them? Thanks, sjobs Carbon dead as of 10.6?

Yeah, that's plausible.

Hey Adobe, I know you just spent like two years coming out with universal versions of that Creative Suite thing, but we're tired of maintaining Carbon. Please rewrite it in Cocoa. Also, if you should run into MacBU, could you pass this along to them? Thanks, sjobs

]]> By: Martin Pilkington http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94666 Martin Pilkington Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:16:28 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94666 Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Photoshop, Office and iTunes all Carbon apps? I doubt Carbon is going anywhere. Any word on whether the new Finder is now Cocoa based or still Carbon based? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Photoshop, Office and iTunes all Carbon apps? I doubt Carbon is going anywhere. Any word on whether the new Finder is now Cocoa based or still Carbon based?

]]> By: artM http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94658 artM Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:59:51 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94658 The Apple page does say this: "All features referenced in the Mac OS X Leopard website are subject to change" Guess they mean it... The Apple page does say this: "All features referenced in the Mac OS X Leopard website are subject to change"

Guess they mean it...

]]> By: Jesper http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94653 Jesper Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:44:17 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94653 My guess is that they're going to be sloughing off old parts of Carbon - CarbonLib-compatible Carbon, as it were - and release Carbon 64 later on. It's tough to make the transition to 64-bit with identical headers, and even tougher to introduce new features in those headers. Apple has stated that Cocoa 64 will be a clean-slate sort of thing, void of many deprecated features, and of course you won't be able to bring in purely 32-bit technologies like QuickDraw. Note to most of you: Carbon will no go away until 10.7 or 10.8 at the *earliest*. There's no reason to believe that it'll go away at all in the near future; Apple has already initiated a modernization process that stretches a few OS versions back (HIView, anyone?), Carbon is in high demand with some developers and large chunks of the back end of the UI is written in Carbon, to the point where Cocoa windows are based on Carbon windows, for example. What would Apple gain from getting rid of Carbon? Simple: it'd get its main app framework lineup count down to one, and it'd be the one everyone's giddy about. That's it. Rewriting the lower Carbon layers to use Cocoa directly is an immense task. Most of the big apps with some history, and even some apps coming out today, are Carbon-based. I'm not saying there's not a trend in Apple apps to transition to Cocoa, but that doesn't make it viable to annihilate Carbon for *everyone*. My guess is that they're going to be sloughing off old parts of Carbon - CarbonLib-compatible Carbon, as it were - and release Carbon 64 later on. It's tough to make the transition to 64-bit with identical headers, and even tougher to introduce new features in those headers. Apple has stated that Cocoa 64 will be a clean-slate sort of thing, void of many deprecated features, and of course you won't be able to bring in purely 32-bit technologies like QuickDraw.

Note to most of you: Carbon will no go away until 10.7 or 10.8 at the *earliest*. There's no reason to believe that it'll go away at all in the near future; Apple has already initiated a modernization process that stretches a few OS versions back (HIView, anyone?), Carbon is in high demand with some developers and large chunks of the back end of the UI is written in Carbon, to the point where Cocoa windows are based on Carbon windows, for example.

What would Apple gain from getting rid of Carbon? Simple: it'd get its main app framework lineup count down to one, and it'd be the one everyone's giddy about. That's it. Rewriting the lower Carbon layers to use Cocoa directly is an immense task. Most of the big apps with some history, and even some apps coming out today, are Carbon-based. I'm not saying there's not a trend in Apple apps to transition to Cocoa, but that doesn't make it viable to annihilate Carbon for *everyone*.

]]> By: Mike http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94649 Mike Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:25:00 +0000 http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/06/13/64-bit-carbon/#comment-94649 Carbon dead as of 10.6? Carbon was created to make a smooth transition from OS 9 to OS X, wasn't that the main purpose? Maybe Apple's decided that transition is way over and it's time to push everyone to Cocoa. Cocoa being cross-platform and all, maybe Apple has something else up their sleeves? Apple does seem to be pushing more technologies into Windows; Bonjour, Webkit, QuickTime. maybe Cocoa's not too far off? Carbon dead as of 10.6? Carbon was created to make a smooth transition from OS 9 to OS X, wasn't that the main purpose? Maybe Apple's decided that transition is way over and it's time to push everyone to Cocoa. Cocoa being cross-platform and all, maybe Apple has something else up their sleeves? Apple does seem to be pushing more technologies into Windows; Bonjour, Webkit, QuickTime. maybe Cocoa's not too far off?

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